20
   

If we were all color blind... ?

 
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jan, 2012 08:52 am
@Procrustes,
Just develop that "evidence" line a little....I don't quite see what you are getting at.
Procrustes
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jan, 2012 08:45 pm
@fresco,
Silent evidence...
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jan, 2012 09:56 pm
@Procrustes,
fresco wants this to be free of biology.
There are several insects whose crystalline receptors mimic our cones and which serve as a sensitive detection system for unique Value differences of a single hue like red or green. A mantids perception of green is based upon many more subtle variations of the color than we can even describe. Deer can see in the ultraviolet, thats why many of the deer musk sprays and clothing would GLOW when a UV light shines on them. A deer sees this in the daylight.
Weve learned to overcome this ability with the new uv free hunter orange vests, new camos and tree stands (Deer dont look UP)
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 01:00 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
fresco wants this to be free of biology

On the contrary, biology sets contraints on interaction (cognition). That is a major element in a constructivist account of "reality". The fact that we have developed some transducers which supplement our own physiology begs the question being avoided by traditional realists of whether such a development would have proceeded in the same manner in a colorless world, or whether there are aspects of "reality" that we have not conceived yet, or will never conceive.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 01:40 am
@farmerman,
...indeed it begs the question of whether the concept of "biology" itself is constrained !
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:24 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
fresco wants this to be free of biology.


Hehehehehehe . . .
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 11:08 am
@fresco,
Fresco ends his last post with "...aspects of 'reality' that we have not conceived yet, or will never conceive," indicating, as I interprete him, that there are species-bound (absolute) perceptual-conceptual limits. And biology defines the greatest of such limits. There are no species on this planet that can do the cognitive exploits chacteristic only of humans. If I may be permitted a science fiction observation, this will be the major observation in the distant future upon encountering complex life forms in other galaxies. Despite impressive forms of intelligence and perceptual capacities, aliens will not very likely resemble those of our species. That, I suspect, will be when the last of our naive realists relent.
Maybe not even then
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 11:40 am
@JLNobody,
Quote:

If I may be permitted a science fiction observation, this will be the major observation in the distant future upon encountering complex life forms in other galaxies. Despite impressive forms of intelligence and perceptual capacities, aliens will not very likely resemble those of our species. That, I suspect, will be when the last of our naive realists relent.
Maybe not even then



I liked that, JL, so allow me another possible (science fiction) scenario:

Maybe ALL species evolve in approximately the same way we have...and maybe ALL species arrive where we seem to be—with a technology advanced to the point where we can annihilate ourselves...BEFORE evolving philosophically to point where we are highly unlikely to do so. Maybe most often, whether accidentally or on purpose through wars, most species do destroy themselves before getting a chance to evolve much beyond where we are right now. Perhaps NO species (or very, very, very few) ever get much beyond where we are right now.

We MAY be one of the most advanced extant life forms in the universe, JL! The Reality may be that almost none ever gets past this dangerous period in what may be the normal pattern of evolution.

Maybe we will never have contact with extra-terrestrial species because “they” almost always destroy themselves before achieving the technology necessary to reach out to us…and/or because we will destroy ourselves before we are able to reach out to them.

Damn…it may be that all dominant species look relatively the same…or may deviate from one another significantly…and we will never know because the one thing we all possess in common is a tendency toward self-destruction.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:11 pm
Or maybe not . . .
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
A very interesting speculation, Frank. Let's hope you are wrong. You know, it seems to me that the tremendous variation we see in the evolutionary outcomes of the species on earth suggests that the variations in this vast universe will be at least equally extreme. But we lack the facts to carry this on. Fortunately we have enough "facts" for science fiction speculations; unfortunately, we cannot treat them as testable hypotheses: we won't live long enough to test them. Sad
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 04:47 pm
@JLNobody,
In a way, dolphins qualify as aliens, don't they? They are native to this planet, but their environment is not one we can prosper in. They have intelligence, but their environment and their sensory perception shapes it into something completely different from our own.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 04:57 pm
If "man" didn't have the capacity to determine the "color" of food stuffs, we'd be without beer, wine, coffee, tea, and coke. God forbid!
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 06:06 pm
@Cyracuz,
Yes on all counts.
0 Replies
 
Procrustes
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 08:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Why do you speculate that any form of species goes the way of technology? Wouldn't it be concievable that 'alien species' are not anthropomorphised and also exist outside of human perception or awareness?
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 10:01 pm
@Procrustes,
Yes, it has been my complaint that too much science fiction has anthropomorphized the alien world. Virtually all extraterrestial beings on T.V. are mere versions of the human form, maybe with a different color or a bump on the forehead. And many speak English or if they have the decency to use a "universal translator" have the indecency to think more or less like middle class 20th century Americans.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 10:07 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Yes, it has been my complaint that too much science fiction has anthropomorphized the alien world. Virtually all extraterrestial beings on T.V. are mere versions of the human form, maybe with a different color or a bump on the forehead. And many speak English or if they have the decency to use a "universal translator" have the indecency to think more or less like middle class 20th century Americans.

That was my biggest complaint about Stranger in a Strange Land. The first pages set up a premise of alien intelligence, embodied in the central character. But, within a chapter or two, he becomes a 20TH Century American, no different than 20 million other people.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 10:18 pm
@edgarblythe,
And that's not the end of it. Have you noticed that pictures of aliens all look alike? Round head, big eyes, no ears, and short.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 10:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
Yeah, our species should have the anthropological appelation of Homo Projectus.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 11:47 pm
@Cyracuz,
Nice point about dolphins.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jan, 2012 08:25 am
@Procrustes,
Quote:
Why do you speculate that any form of species goes the way of technology?


Just a possibility I wanted to mention.

Quote:
Wouldn't it be concievable that 'alien species' are not anthropomorphised and also exist outside of human perception or awareness?


Yup...which was why I used the words "MAY" and "MAYBE" so often.

Who knows what is out there...or what its nature is?
0 Replies
 
 

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