43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 02:42 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You likened common sense to losing an election,
Yes. My concept had to do with PROJECTION (in error) of one's feelings, values and factual beliefs
onto other people because we all share membership in the same species. That is a false justification.
It is error to believe that Booth & Lincoln shared the same values
and beliefs because thay were both human.
Thay probably had different notions of what is "common sense".



izzythepush wrote:
as opposed to behaving in a reckless and dangerous manner
that can result in fatalities and imprisonment.
I did.





izzythepush wrote:
I'm saying that common sense is the latter, keeping your nose clean,
Well, I imagine that u r right,
i.e., that probably most people do not drive drunk.
I have no idea of what the statistic is.
I will refer again to the incident of the sad fellow
who was the head of the National Safety Council [???]
who was driving home from a public social event
in promotion of public safety, and he was arrested
for DUI on his way home. He thought it was safe to do it.
He thought no harm 'd come of it; he was rong: he blew his job.





izzythepush wrote:
losing an election has nothing to do with common sense,
I understand the point that u r making.
My concept was that the voters who lost
probably believe that the successful voters failed to have "common sense".
For instance, when W ran for election to the Presidency both times
(with my vote in support of him) I suspect that nearly hysterical Democrats who redundantly called W "stupid"
believed that we Republicans did not have "common sense".

Do u disagree with that, Izzy ??







izzythepush wrote:
you're just losing the argument.


izzythepush wrote:
Isn't every election just a big public argument?
No. It IS a big, public argument. I agree with u.





izzythepush wrote:
P. S. The phrase 'you're just losing the argument,' isn't directed at you.
There is a long-time member of this forum who, when that person loses an argument,
or is merely shown a flaw in that person's reasoning,
that person simply ignores it. I believe that is unfair
and is not in keeping with good sportsmanship.
If the criticism is neither challenged nor refuted,
then, in fairness, that person shud openly acknowledge the error,
which is repeatedly not happening.

When I am successfully disproven: I openly admit it.

( Izzy is NOT the person in question; Izzy is innocent of this.)






izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:35 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Thay probably had different notions of what is "common sense".


Don't know them, but I disagree, they probably disagreed about how to run the country. Common sense is a lot more basic, like not putting a shirt and tie on before you brush your teeth, or lighting a match when you smell gas.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:39 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I suspect that nearly hysterical Democrats who redundantly called W "stupid"
believed that we Republicans did not have "common sense".

Do u disagree with that, Izzy ??


I think it depends on the voter, some people who voted Republican were acting in their own interests. I don't think it's a question of common sense, more a question of manipulation of the population by the vested interests. Opium of the people and all that.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:47 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Common sense is a lot more basic, like not putting a shirt and tie on before you brush your teeth, or lighting a match when you smell gas.


agreed
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 06:45 pm
Footnote if you get hammer in the state of Florida and decide not to drive but to sleep it off in you car, on the bar parking lot for example, you will need to hide the car keys aways from the car.

Otherwise cops can come along and charge your sleeping ass with DUI of a car that is both park and who engine is cold.

It seems the legal theory is that you have control of the car in a drunken state and therefore is guilty of DUI even of a park shut off car.

The only way around this is not to be in a car in a drunken state with the means to drive it IE the damn car keys.

I know that Firefly never hear of a law that she does not love but the idea of charging a person for doing the right thing and not driving is hard to take for most sane people but that is the state of Florida law today.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 07:00 pm
@BillRM,
So now it's about having a kip in a car when you're pissed, and here was me thinking it was about killing a cyclist.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 07:42 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
So now it's about having a kip in a car when you're pissed,
translation:

Now, when youre drunk, you have to be concerned about eating a dried fish in your car.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 07:50 pm
@farmerman,
Very droll FM.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 08:36 pm
@BillRM,
Florida is not the only state with such an "in control of the car" law.
Quote:
The only way around this is not to be in a car in a drunken state with the means to drive it IE the damn car keys.

Most of the people arrested for non-moving DUI are in the driver's seat, generally slumped over the wheel, sometimes with their key in the ignition, even if the car isn't running.
If someone gets into the back seat of their car, and stretches out there, they are much less likely to get ticketed for DUI, for one thing they really wouldn't be visible to a police officer, so one wouldn't even have much reason to approach the car.

States that have non-moving DUI laws clearly don't want drivers to get into a car drunk, where there is any possibility that they could drive the vehicle.

So, people who don't have a designated driver, shouldn't get drunk and plan on sleeping it off in their cars in those states.
Quote:
the idea of charging a person for doing the right thing and not driving is hard to take for most sane people but that is the state of Florida law today.

"Doing the right thing" is planning on alternate transportation home if you've driven somewhere and gotten drunk.
"Doing the right thing" is not getting so drunk that you're about to pass out and have to get into your car to do that.
"Doing the right thing" is not getting into your car drunk, unless a sober person is next to you in the driver's seat.

The state of Florida really wants you to know that your car is off limits to you if you've been drinking.

It's not surprising then that they would have very stiff penalties for DUI manslaughter--they have a tough stance on the whole matter of drinking and driving, including drunk drivers even being in a car which they might operate.

People that live in states like that, should observe the law if they want to avoid a DUI ticket.





hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 11:16 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
States that have non-moving DUI laws clearly don't want drivers to get into a car drunk, where there is any possibility that they could drive the vehicle.


Right, as I have been saying the state now penalizes for what it fears a citizen will do, not just what a citizen actually does. This is immoral, and a gross abuse of power by the state.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 11:35 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
People that live in states like that, should observe the law if they want to avoid a DUI ticket.


Just as the Syrian people should observe Syrian law if they want to avoid punishment by the Syrian state.....but then the law is not always right, nor worthy of respect or compliance.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 11:42 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
New Hampshire’s attorney general is threatening legal action against some of the nation’s most prominent polling firms, invoking a state law against spreading negative information through poll questions in a way that could limit public opinion surveys in one of the nation’s most politically contested states.
rned its members in a memorandum two weeks ago to “be very careful” about making polling calls to New Hampshire, citing an example of one firm that could face up to $1.4 million in fines for allegedly violating the law.

The law was a response to voter anger about telephone calls intended to spread politically damaging information in the guise of conducting surveys, called “push polling.”

But it is written so broadly that it has begun to ensnare some of the nation’s best-known political pollsters at a time when there is a flurry of polling by presidential candidates, interest groups, “super PACs” and news organizations.

“Until we are successful in keeping this law from being wrongfully enforced against genuine survey research, be very careful when conducting legitimate survey research in New Hampshire,” the American Association of Political Consultants wrote to its members on Feb. 15.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/02/us/politics/law-has-polling-firms-leery-of-new-hampshire.html?_r=1&hp

American laws are often incredibly poorly written, which is on purpose with the intent to abuse the citizens. It is time for us to rebel, time to say NO MORE!
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 12:05 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Right, as I have been saying the state now penalizes for what it fears a citizen will do

And, among the fears, and things they try to prevent, is that a drunk driver will plow his car into a cyclist and kill him.

One way to stop behavior is to interfere with it at the earliest point in the behavioral chain. So, to prevent drunk driving, you try to interfere with the drunk driver even getting into his car just to sit, or pass out--you try to keep him out of the car, to reduce the possibility of his driving it as much as possible. And you do that with the potential threat of a non-moving DUI.
Quote:
This is immoral, and a gross abuse of power by the state.

You seem to say that about all laws. And you fail to see that the laws you most often bitch about are laws designed to prevent someone from abusing, or harming, or killing another person, as is the case with drunk driving laws.

It's not immoral, and it's not a "gross abuse of power by the state". These are laws passed by duly elected state representatives, after public opinion was allowed to weigh in.
And the purpose of these "in control of the car" laws is to protect the public from drunk drivers--by letting the drunk driver know he can't even sit behind the wheel of a parked car with car keys in his pocket without risking a DUI ticket. That's one way to deter drunk drivers from even getting into their cars. It's interrupting the behavioral chain involved in drunk driving at it's earliest point.




hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 12:15 am
@firefly,
Quote:
It's interrupting the behavioral chain involved in drunk driving at it's earliest point.


That would be making it illegal to be drunk....is this where you wish to go Firefly?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 12:38 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
That would be making it illegal to be drunk....is this where you wish to go Firefly?

No, people can get as drunk as they want, as long as they stay away from their cars. It's the behavior of getting into the car you're trying to interrupt.

On the other hand, Dram Shop Laws, that can involve civil/and or/criminal liability on the part of a bar or restaurant for serving alcohol to intoxicated persons, are aimed at curbing drunkenness, and trying to prevent drunk driving, as well as bar fights and things of that nature. Some states have Social Host Liability laws for homeowners who provide or serve alcohol to guests, to try to deter drunk driving.

Even though Florida has a tough policy toward drunk driving, it does not have Dram Shop Laws.



0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 12:42 am
@firefly,
Quote:
he state of Florida really wants you to know that your car is off limits to you if you've been drinking.


Amazing there is not one law no matter how insane as in a law that punish people for not driving drunk that you do not approve of!!!!!!!!!!

Is there any law ever pass that you do not agree with Firefly?

Give us one example of any current law on the books at the state level or Federal level that you have a problem with just one law Firefly!

Not even most good catholics agree to the degree with the Pope that you seems to agree with lawmakers.

It almost seems like this is a religion matter to you as it the law so we should respect it not matter how stupid and unfair it might be.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 12:49 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Give us one example of any current law on the books at the state level or Federal level that you have a problem with just one law Firefly!


How about the MD law demanding that those who request an abortion must get an ultra-sound of the fetus...surely at least here you draw the line in your support of the police state.....right? I mean you do have a little shame, surely.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 12:56 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
but then the law is not always right, nor worthy of respect or compliance.


Agree and it might be becoming time to follow the founding fathers and break out the guns:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

.But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotismit is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security,
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 01:04 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
surely at least here you draw the line in your support of the police state.....right? I mean you do have a little shame, surely.


Hawkeye I can not see her disagreeing and not respecting any law that are on the law books.

In the 1950s she would had been supporting the jim crow laws in the south and before the civil war the runaway Fugitive Slave Acts.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 01:05 am
@BillRM,
you're gonna overthrow the government so you can drive drunk?

what a revolutionary...

Rolling Eyes
 

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