43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 10:57 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
does the law apply to him ?


THAT'S PROBABLY WHY HE'S GOING IN FRONT OF A JUDGE - TO FIND OUT WHAT LAWS APPLY AND HOW.


(aren't lawyers supposed to know this sort of thing?)
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:08 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
I can't speak for FS, but I think Thom only killed one person.
I think this post explains why not a lot of people have any sympathy for him.
http://able2know.org/topic/182157-88#post-4905575
Yeah, but as Bill has accurately pointed out,
u don't have to be drunk to become [unexpectedly] involved in a fatal traffic ax,
in poor visibility.

I remember a 16 year old lad I knew whose car was fatally hit
by a pedestrian in the 1960s while he was slowly driving it.
It was not HIS fault.
( Fortunately, there was no criminal prosecution, but his family
was rather upset about it. )

I remember another case, wherein a bicyclist hit the side of
my client's Cadillac, claiming personal injuries, in the full light of day,
with no allegations of alcohol involvement.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:11 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
u don't have to be drunk to become [unexpectedly] involved in a fatal traffic ax,


that is why there are separate charges for the fatality and the drunk driving ... and since the accident happened in Florida there was the option of a combo charge

good idea to drive carefully
even better idea not to drive after drinking
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:12 am
@ehBeth,

BillRM wrote:
he did the best thing possible by going at once to a phone and calling for help.
ehBeth wrote:
do you have any information that he called for help for the cyclist? it's not in any of the records I can find.

If you have that information, please provide the reference.
Informing the police of the situation shud be sufficient.
It is part of their job to attend to that.





David
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:12 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Informing the police of the situation shud be sufficient.
It is part of their job to attend to that.


what did Thom tell the police?
jcboy
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:24 am
@ehBeth,
Yesterday we met up with a few friends at the resort for cocktails. Two of Thoms good friends were also there, they’re talking about his problems. They were saying how Thom never drove home from the bars and this was a first time for him. I kept my mouth shut and just walked away, I know better.

And the irony was those two had at least 4 cocktails each within a three hour time frame and both got in their cars and drove home. Some people learned from Thom’s misfortune, other’s seem to have a short term memory!
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:26 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Bill twists the facts to fit his own particular position.
Really??


izzythepush wrote:
Where most people would view his actions as fleeing the scene of the crime then having second thoughts, Bill sees it as running home as quickly as possible in order to make a phone call.
That is COMMENTING upon the incident,
not twisting anything.
It is not Bill 's job to follow the most popular flow of opinion.

( If Columbus had done that, woud we all still be in Spain?? )




izzythepush wrote:
The facts have not come out, but I suspect he had a mobile on him,
AHA!
Which of the facts that have not come out
have led u to this suspicion???????



izzythepush wrote:
and he waited a bit before he made the phonecall on his landline.
"A bit"????? How long is that,
that Tom waited??

I wonder if Barry asked him to get him a drink,
under the circumstances!??





David
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:33 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Like I said to FS, you're a lawyer. This is a thread about the morality of drink driving and the sentencing, not a court of law.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:39 am
@ehBeth,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
does the law apply to him ?
ehBeth wrote:
THAT'S PROBABLY WHY HE'S GOING IN FRONT OF A JUDGE - TO FIND OUT WHAT LAWS APPLY AND HOW.


(aren't lawyers supposed to know this sort of thing?)
Whether the laws apply or not depends on the facts of the case.
For instance, the laws against counterfeiting cash do not apply
to instances of arson, nor speeding thru a school zone, nor kidnapping. Get the idea??





David
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 11:40 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Oh, I've got the idea all right.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 12:21 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Like I said to FS, you're a lawyer.
This is a thread about the morality of drink driving and the sentencing, not a court of law.
Yeah, but I can still question & comment anyway.
Robert has not thrown me out, yet!





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 12:26 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Oh, I've got the idea all right.
OK. Then a refresher course will not be necessary.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 12:34 pm
@ehBeth,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Informing the police of the situation shud be sufficient.
It is part of their job to attend to that.
ehBeth wrote:
what did Thom tell the police?
If I remember accurately,
it was posted that he went home 1.5 blocks away and called the police,
informing them of the situation. Thay arrived in response and arrested him, presumably also attending to Barry.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 12:46 pm
@jcboy,
Quote:
two had at least 4 cocktails each within a three hour time frame and both got in their cars and drove home


Let see I am not an expert but the body should be able to handle one drink an hour so four drinks over three or four hours meaning that they was not likely driving over the legal limit unless they consume all those drinks at the end or near the end of the night.

When I was younger I used to consume two drinks in a short time frame at the start of the evening and then nurse the third drink for the rest of the evening.

Giving at least a half hour from the last slip to leaving the bar.

In my old age I will only will have one drink at the most.

-------------------------------------------------------------
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:7rEdjypCcr8J:chavesdwiprogram.us/pdf/Effects%2520of%2520Alcohol%2520Intoxication.pdf+tme+frame+for+the+body+liver+to+get+rid+of+alcohol&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESilmAlQZnEX9osK91WwM0LvpgM7gznML3dQeUctTp1B4C0KVTr9nFJYSKqiYUanyM4vFj8iSqcpsJM5pLMv58lheijRsKI1__9t2tMGxJ08ZX1r60IlnTzE8PQuFku-JWASo1vM&sig=AHIEtbQ2OZjkCPA9u0pQyyPeYeWJ3zszOw

The effects of alcohol

Intoxication: how it happens

As the alcohol reaches your stomach, some of it is absorbed and enters
the bloodstream immediately. However, most of it passes on into the
small intestine where it is absorbed and goes eventually into the
bloodstream. Approximately 90% of it leaves the body after being
processed by the liver. This organ is able to process alcohol at
approximately one standard drink per hour.

If you have only one drink per hour, the liver can keep the body’s blood
alcohol concentration at a relatively safe level. However, if you have
more than one drink per hour the liver cannot keep up its job of
processing the alcohol and the percentage of alcohol in the blood
begins to rise.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 12:55 pm
As far as having a working cell phone with you I normally carry two cell phones and yet from time to time I had found that I had for example let one cell phone home and the other one had zero charge on it.

So the question did he have a charge working cell phone on him at the time of the accident is a valid one at least in my opinion.

If I let one cell phone home and had have a long conversation with my wife on the other one there is a chance that I would not have a working cell phone in a time of need.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 12:55 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
However if seems nothing matter but his BAC level and that he let the scene and in any sane society it would matter how must or how little the driver BAC level factor into the accident occurring compare to other factors such as the cyclist not being lit up and if the only way to contact the authorities in a timely manner was to leave the scene or not.

You don't understand the law--try reading it. At a BAC level of .o8 or above, the ability to drive is impaired, and that has been well established, it does not have to be proved in each case, it can be assumed, and that is the way the law reads.

Even if other factors contributed to the accident, one's ability to avoid accidents is impaired at a BAC level above .08. The impaired state cannot be removed from the equation in this particular case given the few available facts.

You, and everyone you know, must be binge drinkers or heavy drinkers if you consider a BAC level of .08 "ridiculously low"--and you don't know how much above .08 Swift's BAC level was, it may well have been at least double that amount.
He wasn't drinking "standard sized drinks", he was drinking Long Island Iced Tea--drinks which are considerably larger, and considerably more potent, than the average mixed drink.

This business of the cyclist "not being lit up" is nonsense--he was hit from behind, he should have been visible by the illumination of street lights and the car's headlights in time to avoid hitting him. For all you know, Swift momentarily dozed off, or failed to have his headlights on, or had his night vision, depth perception, reaction time, and judgment impaired by alcohol--all of which are the known effects of alcohol on the central nervous system.

You are overlooking the fact that Swift was ticketed for careless driving, in addition to the DUI manslaughter charge. The fault for the accident seems to be falling squarely on him.

And Swift didn't just "leave the scene", he never stopped his car. He never looked at the person he hit even though the man's body was thrown up against his windshield. He left the man dying in the street, where he could have been hit by other cars. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether he had "a working cell phone" (which he probably did have). To not even stop your car, is a rather callous indifference for the welfare of someone you just hit with your car, and, if Swift wasn't even sure of what he hit, he was pretty damn drunk.

Stop playing arm-chair defense attorney, the man has a more than adequate defense attorney. The problem may be that his actions are not defensible--there is no excuse for driving in an impaired and intoxicated state, there is no excuse for failing to stop your car after hitting someone to see what kind of assistance the person requires and to try to divert traffic around him if he is in the road.

People who tend to spend hours sitting and drinking in bars several nights a week are likely to be heavy drinkers who routinely drive while impaired, and, on that particular night, Swift's luck ran out and the odds caught up with him. And his friends, and drinking buddies, at that bar, would be wise to learn something from this tragedy. Everyone thinks it won't happen to him--and I'm sure Swift thought that way too, if he bothered to think about it at all. His situation should be a wake-up call to everyone else who routinely gathers at that watering-hole--it can happen to you.

If people want to drink, and spend entire evenings drinking, they have to be responsible enough to arrange alternate transportation. Trying to find excuses, or loop-holes in the law or police procedures, after the fact of driving DUI and hitting and killing someone is a little too late to do anyone much good--particularly the victim who's dead. The time to understand the ramifications and consequences of drunk driving is before you put your keys in the ignition. If Swift hadn't been driving drunk, he wouldn't be in the situation he faces now.



OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 01:06 pm
@jcboy,
jcboy wrote:
Yesterday we met up with a few friends at the resort for cocktails. Two of Thoms good friends were also there, they’re talking about his problems. They were saying how Thom never drove home from the bars and this was a first time for him.
I kept my mouth shut and just walked away, I know better.
U r a good diplomat.




jcboy wrote:
And the irony was those two had at least 4 cocktails each within a three hour time frame and both got in their cars and drove home. Some people learned from Thom’s misfortune, other’s seem to have a short term memory!
Well, I guess the loyalty of good friends is an admirable thing,
tho I can't approve of mendacity. WELCOME back, Morgan. Its good to see u again.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 01:10 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You don't understand the law--try reading it. At a BAC level of .o8 or above, the ability to drive is impaired, and that has been well established, it does not have to be proved in each case, it can be assumed, and that is the way the law reads.


Once more there is one hell of a long list of things that will degrade the driving abilities of anyone that have nothing to do with drinking to at least a .08 level.

Lack of one night sleep, great emotional upset and on and on and yet we only pick a BAC of .08 and claimed that any accident must be the fault a driver with that level of blood alcohol no matter what.

A level of .08 that was in fact not pick by most states but force on them by congress with special note of the state of Florida who was force to lower the BAC to .08 from .1 or loss hundreds of millions in highway fundings.

It would be nice if we have some logic and commonsense written into to our legal system.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 01:19 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
You don't understand the law--try reading it. At a BAC level of .o8 or above, the ability to drive is impaired, and that has been well established, it does not have to be proved in each case, it can be assumed, and that is the way the law reads.
BillRM wrote:
Once more there is one hell of a long list of things that will degrade the driving abilities of anyone that have nothing to do with drinking to at least a .08 level.

Lack of one night sleep, great emotional upset and on and on and yet we only pick a BAC of .08 and claimed that any accident must be the fault a driver with that level of blood alcohol no matter what.

A level of .08 that was in fact not pick by most states but force on them by congress with special note of the state of Florida who was force to lower the BAC to .08 from .1 or loss hundreds of millions in highway fundings.

It would be nice if we have some logic and commonsense written into to our legal system.
What u have described really is corruption perpetrated by the federal government,
using tax money extorted from us to constrict our personal freedom.

This is antithetical to the federalism n joint sovereignty that the Founders had in mind.

The federal perps shud not be allowed impugnity.
This was a lack of foresight in the Founders.





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Feb, 2012 01:45 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Lack of one night sleep, great emotional upset and on and on and yet we only pick a BAC of .08 and claimed that any accident must be the fault a driver with that level of blood alcohol no matter what.

No, we hold people responsible for careless or reckless driving due to other causes as well, including fatigue or emotional upset, particularly when vehicular homicide is involved.

People are expected to take the responsibility, and privilege, of driving a car--which is a potential lethal weapon--very seriously, which means you don't drive in an impaired state due to any cause.

You are responsible for your behavior behind the wheel of a car, and for making sure you are not in an impaired condition when you drive a car.
Quote:
yet we only pick a BAC of .08 and claimed that any accident must be the fault a driver with that level of blood alcohol no matter what.

You just don't get it. At .08, driving abilities are impaired, and that has been well established. Therefore, a BAC level above +.08 is a factor in any accident because the driver was in an already impaired state.

You've done nothing other than to point out your own irresponsible driving habits by telling us that you've driven while lacking sleep, emotionally upset, etc., and probably in other impaired states as well. You don't seem to take the responsibility of driving a car very seriously.

This thread is about a man who drove drunk, likely very drunk, and he hit and killed someone, and he never even stopped his car to look at his victim. He was irresponsible in his actions. The law will now hold him accountable for those actions.

His current legal situation is the result of his own doing. Had he not driven drunk that night, he would not be in his current predicament, and his victim would likely still be alive.

These tragedies are avoidable by not drinking and driving. Everything else is really beside the point--there is no excuse for drinking and driving. And Swift is now learning that the hard way.



 

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