I just don’t understand drinking and driving

@firefly,

Quote:

there is on it face little justice in the justice system unless you had the means to resist the pressures to plead

firefly wrote:

The defendant in this case appears to have the means--he is represented by a very experienced trial attorney.

Homicide trials r not always the best places to skimp
on legal fees.

firefly wrote:

The defense attorney also plays a pivotal role in getting a better plea deal for their client.

Lazy trial attorneys can prefer negotiated settlements.

firefly wrote:

He might feel that accepting a plea deal is a just outcome since he may be willing to acknowledge guilt. . . .

I have known guys who had good and defensible cases of innocence
in which police n prosecutors screwed up badly,
but thay preferred to go to jail.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I have known guys who had good and defensible cases of innocence
in which police n prosecutors screwed up badly,
but thay preferred to go to jail.

Doubtfull. A DA so arrogant that he would charge with a weak hand combined with a defense representative who either did not know that the hand was weak or did not care.....that I would believe.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

Swift might well prefer a decent plea deal to a trial

The definition of "decent" changes depending the extent of the downside, and 30 years is a lot of downside.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

DAVID wrote:

I have known guys who had good and defensible cases of innocence
in which police n prosecutors screwed up badly,
but thay preferred to go to jail.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Doubtfull. A DA so arrogant that he would charge with a weak hand combined
with a defense representative who either did not know that the hand was weak or did not care.....that I would believe.

I spoke to the fellow.
He described his plight. I told him that based upon those facts,
he had a pretty defensible case. (He was not my client.)
I advised him to engage good local counsel and to resist.
He did not accept my advice; he went away for about a year. It was sad.

0 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

Another very good reason not to drink and drive. It's expensive when you get arrested for it.

However that is not our laws and most people do have a drink or two and drive with little impact on road safety.

Hundreds of thousands of businesses would go out of business if people follow your advice not only bars but restaurants for example.

God only know had great a hit in the pocket books sports teams would take if they could not sell ten dollars beers at games!!!!!!

The idea of keeping moving the allowable blood alcohol level lower and lower to the point you will not be able to use mouth wash before driving have nothing to do with safety no matter what MADD try to sell.

This whole problem is a clear example of not only how badly our so call criminal justice system need retuning but how special interests groups can get bad laws passed.

3 Replies

@BillRM,

Still no concern for the family of the victim I see. You only care about yourself. So you think it's perfectly acceptable to have one or two drinks before driving. Just because you've not killed anyone so far, doesn't mean you're safe to drive.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Quote:

Another very good reason not to drink and drive. It's expensive when you get arrested for it.

BillRM wrote:

However that is not our laws and most people do have a drink or two and drive with little impact on road safety.

Hundreds of thousands of businesses would go out of business if people follow your advice not only bars but restaurants for example.

God only know had great a hit in the pocket books sports teams would take if they could not sell ten dollars beers at games!!!!!!

The idea of keeping moving the allowable blood alcohol level lower and lower to the point you will not be able to use mouth wash before driving have nothing to do with safety no matter what MADD try to sell.

This whole problem is a clear example of not only how badly our so call criminal justice system need retuning but how special interests groups can get bad laws passed.

Over the years, decades n centuries, I have been rear-ended
quite a few times by tipsy motorists; minor taps, not enuf to damage the car,
most recently last month.

2ice, I 've been rear-ended by the police at stop signs,
(but thay were sober); 1ce by a State Trooper on his way to work
and 1ce by the NYC Police. It was interesting to approach a police car
and demand to see his license and registration.

David

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Quote:

God only know had great a hit in the pocket books sports teams would take if they could not sell ten dollars beers at games!!!!!!

That's a reason not to have drunk driving laws? The profit of sports teams from selling beers at games is worth more than human lives?

Wow, do you have a great sense of values. Rolling Eyes

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

Another very good reason not to drink and drive

I gave the reasons why your repeat your suggestion that no one should had a drink and drive would be harmful to the society with little or no safety improvement to offset the harm.

That ever lowing allowable level of blood alcohol is insane and for a starter we should go back to the .1 limit not the .08 limit that was force on most states by the Federal government.

We surely will gain nothing and harm innocent people if we lower the level to .06 or even .02 as some people are calling for.

No law or good idea placed in the law seems immune to being taken to such an extreme that it become more harmful then helpful.

3 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

I gave the reasons why your repeat your suggestion that no one should had a drink and drive would be harmful to the society with little or no safety improvement to offset the harm.

Harmful to businesses? Not seeing it. Here's what it will actually accomplish:
1. More cab rides, increasing the level of income to your cabbies.
2. More Bus rides, increasing income to public transportation which also helps decrease road congestion.
3. More people car pooling with a designated driver WHICH is fairly common place right now with the .08 limit. 'Oh, you mean someone will have to go to the bars with all their friends and not drink? NO ONE WILL DO THAT!!! ALL THE BARS WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!!' Yeah, right.

I live in a state with some of the most absurd alcohol laws in the country, and every single time I go to a bar it is absolutely PACKED. People want to drink, most don't want to drink alone, the bar folks and restaurant folks aren't going out of business with a .06 limit. Period.

Quote:

We surely will gain nothing and harm innocent people if we lower the level to .06 or even .02 as some people are calling for.

You misconstrue 'inconvenience' for 'harm'. And a .06 will be no more inconvenient for most barflies and casual drinkers than the .08 limit.

Quote:

No law or good idea placed in the law seems immune to being taken to such an extreme that it become more harmful then helpful.

Go ahead and just admit it, you like watching families die in fiery, alcohol-fueled crashes. That's got to be the case, because God forbid you don't get to drive your car the 12 blocks from the bar to your home if you've had 1 too many.

1 Reply

@Questioner,

Quote:

1. More cab rides, increasing the level of income to your cabbies.
2. More Bus rides, increasing income to public transportation which also helps decrease road congestion.
3. More people car pooling with a designated driver WHICH is fairly common place right now with the .08 limit. 'Oh, you mean someone will have to go to the bars with all their friends and not drink? NO ONE WILL DO THAT!!! ALL THE BARS WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!!' Yeah, right.

Not going to happen most people will just stray home or not buy any drinks when out and therefore greatly harming businesses including fine restaurants that depend on the large profit margins on alcohol to remain in business.

We are not talking about people who are planing on getting drunk but in having a few drinks at most over a period of hours.

There are now TV advs. being run of late against so call buzz driving not drunk driving so we can see the start of the campaign to have a zero blood alcohol standard.

My stopping and having one drink once or twice a month is not a matter of public safety concern or my having a glass of wine with a meal and I am not going to go by bus or have a non-drinking driver in order to do so.

The results is that those businesses many already on the border line will likely not survive people like me by the millions forgoing that one glass of wine or that one rum and coke and once more with no increase in safety that will come near to offsetting the harm done.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

yeah yeah yeah

just like all the restaurants were going to go out of business once the non-smoking bylaws came into play

didn't happen

~~~

It's no big deal to not drink and drive. There is no NEED to do so.

I'm not advocating for restaurants not being allowed to serve any alcohol, but I don't see any upside to drinking and driving. None.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I notice that your posts aren't quite as mangled as usual.

Didn't have your breakfast eye-opener yet? Drunk

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I think that the fanatics are driving for the law to be .03 BAC, any talk of .06 is a temporary position. These "if it saves one life" fanatics are out of control and are in need of a tune up.

Edit: the if it saves one lifers have decided that those of us who argue for trying to live quality years over lots of years are defectives who do not deserve consideration.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

You do know the average profit from the alcohol serve in many restaurants are in the thirty percent range of their total profit or do you?

How many restaurants can loss that amount of income/profit and remain in business do you think ehbeth?

Selling cigarettes was never a profit center for restaurants selling drinks happen to be.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Personally I don't buy that 'if it saves one life' argument either. It's a crock. The majority of the people that use it would balk if we used the same argument to lower the speed limits on interstates from 65 to 55, or even less. Even though the numbers are there to back up the claim.

However, I do question the validity of Bill's claims that lowering the BAC will cause mass bankruptcies of local businesses and initiate the downfall of society as we know it.

There's doomsayers on both sides.

2 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

Didn't have your breakfast eye-opener yet?

Amazing how you love to slander anyone who disagree with you and right now I have zero alcohol in my home except for rubbing alcohol and the alcohol in my mouthwash. Oh I do not drink either of those two sources of alcohol LOL.

The last time I drank was over a week ago when I stop at a sport bar after seeing a movie and have one rum and coke.

But then anyone who disagree with Firefly must have something wrong with him or herself otherwise they would not be disagreeing with you.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Would you want your children in a school bus driven by someone with a .08 BAC?

Would you want to have surgery on your brain or spinal cord performed by a neurosurgeon with a .08 BAC?

Would you want to be a passenger on a commercial airliner with a pilot and co-pilot who had BAC levels of .08?

Want to have your teeth worked on by a dentist with a BAC level of .08?

I mean, if a .08 BAC is so innocuous in your mind, those things wouldn't bother you, would they?

Operating a motor vehicle that weighs a ton or so, and that requires attention to the road, three mirrors, surrounding traffic, road conditions, weather conditions, traffic signs, traffic lights, etc., and that calls for attention, concentration, motor coordination, visual acuity, depth perception, fast reaction time, and judgment, couldn't possibly be impaired by a BAC level of .08, could it?

1 Reply

@Questioner,

Quote:

I do question the validity of Bill's claims that lowering the BAC will cause mass bankruptcies of local businesses and initiate the downfall of society as we know it.

The total income derive by such businesses as restaurants from selling drinks are not a secret and can be found with a google search if you care to do so.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I do question the validity of Bill's claims that lowering the BAC will cause mass bankruptcies of local businesses and initiate the downfall of society as we know it.

The total income derive by such businesses as restaurants from selling drinks are not a secret and can be found with a google search if you care to do so.

I'm not questioning the income of restaurants from selling drinks, I'm casting doubt on your assertion that lowering the BAC will so drastically effect drink sales as to put restaurants out of business.

1 Reply

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

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