43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:41 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Would you want to have surgery on your brain or spinal cord performed by a neurosurgeon with a .08 BAC?


So the muscle and judgment control needed for working on teeth or a human heart had some relationship with driving a car home a few blocks home?

Or that matter flying a jet across country with a few hundreds passengers or any number of other such tasks is the same as driving a car a few blocks home?

Is that what you are trying to sell?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:42 am
@Questioner,
Questioner wrote:

Personally I don't buy that 'if it saves one life' argument either. It's a crock. The majority of the people that use it would balk if we used the same argument to lower the speed limits on interstates from 65 to 55, or even less. Even though the numbers are there to back up the claim.

However, I do question the validity of Bill's claims that lowering the BAC will cause mass bankruptcies of local businesses and initiate the downfall of society as we know it.

There's doomsayers on both sides.




Not only will .03 put the hammer on bars as but restaurants will suffer too. Around here we are now seeing bars go out of business due to the smoking ban put in place a few years ago....smokers are the best bar customers, but they go out less and don't stay as long now. It took awhile, but those who said the the smoking ban would kill bars were correct.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:44 am
@BillRM,
Why do you want to drink and drive?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:44 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

It took awhile, but those who said the the smoking ban would kill bars were correct.


wrong
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:47 am
Increased enforcement of drunk driving has most definitely decreased alcohol related deaths. Since 2002 it has been illegal in all 50 states to drive with a BAC that is 0.08 or higher and the death toll has declined even more since that time. In 2009, the number of alcohol related deaths was significantly lower than it was in 1982.

Quote:
Alcohol-related deaths in the US since 1982:

Total fatalities Alcohol-related fatalities

Year Number Number Percent
1982 43,945 26,173 60
1983 42,589 24,635 58
1984 44,257 24,762 56
1985 43,825 23,167 53
1986 46,087 25,017 54
1987 46,390 24,094 52
1988 47,087 23,833 51
1989 45,582 22,424 49
1990 44,599 22,587 51
1991 41,508 20,159 49
1992 39,250 18,290 47
1993 40,150 17,908 45
1994 40,716 17,308 43
1995 41,817 17,732 42
1996 42,065 17,749 42
1997 42,013 16,711 40
1998 41,501 16,673 40
1999 41,717 16,572 40
2000 41,945 17,380 41
2001 42,196 17,400 41
2002 43,005 17,524 41
2003 42,643 17,013 40
2004 42,518 16,919 39
2005 43,443 16,885 39
2006 42,532 15,829 37
2007 41,059 15,387 37
2008 37,261 13,846 37
2009 33,808 12,744 38

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-2008.html
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:48 am
@Questioner,
Quote:
I'm casting doubt on your assertion that lowering the BAC will so drastically effect drink sales as to put restaurants out of business.


So you are claiming that anyone that wish to consume a glass of wine or two at a meal is going to go to the trouble of having a non drinking driver with him instead of just skipping the wine?

Or are you of the opinion that he will take the chance of having a DUI for a blood level of .02 instead?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:51 am
@firefly,
An all the safety improvements in cars and highways have nothing to do with the dropping death rate in accidents with or with out alcohol involved....LOL
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:53 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I'm casting doubt on your assertion that lowering the BAC will so drastically effect drink sales as to put restaurants out of business.


So you are claiming that anyone that wish to consume a glass of wine or two at a meal is going to go to the trouble of having a non drinking driver with him instead of just skipping the wine?


you usually go to restaurants alone to drink?

most people I know go to restaurants with friends and/family. I've never known it to be a problem for one or two people not to drink for an evening.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:54 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Or are you of the opinion that he will take the chance of having a DUI for a blood level of .02 instead?

Why are you pushing a phony argument by using a BAC level of .02--when we are talking about enforcing a BAC level of .08?

Can you discuss anything without resorting to strawmen?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 11:02 am
@BillRM,
People aren't exactly having a drink or two, so alcohol-related business in bars and restaurants wouldn't seem to be suffering...This was in yesterday's paper.
Quote:
The New York Times
January 11, 2012,
America’s Drinking Binge
By TARA PARKER-POPE

Excessive drinking isn’t just for college kids anymore. New research shows that four times a month, one in six Americans goes on a drinking binge, knocking back an average of eight alcoholic beverages within a few hours.

The findings, based on a survey of 457,677 Americans around the country, show that while binge drinking remains common among the young, it’s also an issue for people well past their 20s. Over all, about 36 percent of binge drinking occurs among people 35 and older, and older people tend to binge-drink more frequently than the young.

For instance, about 13 percent of people between the ages of 45 to 64 say they binge-drink about five times a month, consuming about seven drinks in a sitting. Although only about 4 percent of people 65 and older report regular binge drinking, these older adults drink excessively an average of 5.5 times a month, making the 65-and-over crowd the group that binge-drinks most frequently.

By comparison, 28 percent of young adults 18 to 24 take part in regular binge drinking an average of just four days a month. Young people also drink the most in one sitting, averaging 9.3 drinks, according to the report, from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“It’s not just the usual suspects who are binge drinking,” said Dr. Robert Brewer, who leads the C.D.C.’s alcohol program. “This is not just a problem of high school kids and college students. It’s a problem across the lifespan.”

Binge drinking is typically defined as five or more drinks on a single occasion for men or four or more drinks on a single occasion for women, generally within about two hours, according to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. This level of drinking would typically raise blood alcohol levels to 0.08 percent and make a person legally impaired to drive.

To a person who drinks several glasses of wine while dining out or during a party with friends, the idea of consuming four or five drinks in an evening may not sound excessive for the circumstances. But Dr. Brewer notes that a large body of evidence shows that drinking at that level is associated with a number of health hazards, including car accidents, injuries, violence and risk of contracting a sexually transmitted disease.

Binge drinkers “tend to do so frequently and tend to drink at levels that far exceed the cut points used to define this behavior,” said Dr. Brewer. “Even if one has some qualms about the definition, what we’re saying is, ‘People are drinking way above that level anyway.’ ”

The latest data were gathered by asking respondents how often they engaged in binge drinking in the past month, and the largest number of drinks they had on any occasion.

Binge drinking was twice as common among men as among women, with 23.2 percent of male respondents admitting to a drinking binge of about nine drinks at a time in the past month, compared with 11.4 percent of women, who reported consuming an average of 5.9 drinks per binge.

Binge drinking prevalence increased with household income. About 20 percent of people who earn $75,000 or more annually reported binge drinking. However, the data showed that people with lower incomes tend to binge more frequently and consume more alcohol per sitting.

Binge drinking was least common in Utah, where just 11 percent of adults reported a binge. It was most common in Wisconsin, where nearly 26 percent of the adult population drinks excessively. Wisconsin binge drinkers also put away the most alcohol, averaging nine drinks per occasion. The frequency of binge drinking was lowest in New Jersey, where the binges happen just 3.6 times a month, and highest in Kentucky, where binges occur 5.9 times a month.

Over all, states with the highest age-adjusted prevalence of adult binge drinking were in the Midwest and New England, and included the District of Columbia, Alaska and Hawaii.

The C.D.C. says that binge drinking accounted for more than half of the 80,000 annual deaths associated with excessive drinking. In 2010, 85 percent of all alcohol-impaired driving arrests or accidents involved people who also reported binge drinking. However, most people who binge-drink are not dependent on alcohol, the agency reports.

Notably, most of the alcohol consumed in the United States is consumed during a binge. Binge drinking accounts for more than half of the alcohol consumed by adults and 90 percent of the alcohol consumed by youths.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/americas-drinking-binge/?scp=2&sq=binge%20drinking&st=cse

BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 11:30 am
@firefly,
I love those surveys with those wild claims in this case that a large percent of people are binge drinkers.

On it face not true as in the claims that 30 percents of all college women will be rape victims in college.

Bullshit surveys.........................
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 11:34 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
I love those surveys with those wild claims in this case that a large percent of people are binge drinkers.

Since this survey was based on self-reports, why would people make "wild claims" about their own drinking habits? If anything, people have a tendency to downplay or minimize the amount they drink. This data may actually underestimate the amount of alcohol being consumed.
Quote:
Bullshit surveys

Why, because they don't support your bullshit comments and conclusions? Laughing

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 11:37 am
@ehBeth,
I normally go with my wife and we both had been known to have a glass of wine or even two.

Sorry but I do not normally go with large groups.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 11:37 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Increased enforcement of drunk driving has most definitely decreased alcohol related deaths.

I'm not sure that increased enforcement has resulted in all of those saved lives.

There's been a huge shift in how drinking and driving is perceived by the public, along with designated driver campaigns and free cab rides for partiers.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 11:40 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Why are you pushing a phony argument by using a BAC level of .02--when we are talking about enforcing a BAC level of .08?


Because that where we are headed and there are even tv advs now running concerning not drunk driving but so call buzz driving.

MADD is out of lower the limit that low and it is no secret.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 11:46 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Since this survey was based on self-reports, why would people make "wild claims" about their own drinking habits? If anything, people have a tendency to downplay or minimize the amount they drink. This data may actually underestimate the amount of alcohol being consumed.


You can design a survey to get the results you wish for and by only knowing the details of this survey could I tell you how the people who ran it rigged it.

It not true on it face as anyone who look around their own circle of friends and count the bringe drinkers they know of in that circle could tell you.

Hell when I was younger and used to hang around bars the numbers of bringe drinkers was rare to say the least even in a group of drinkers.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 11:58 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
I'm not sure that increased enforcement has resulted in all of those saved lives.

There's been a huge shift in how drinking and driving is perceived by the public, along with designated driver campaigns and free cab rides for partiers.

I agree.

But that was all part of the same move toward an increased crack-down on drunk driving that began in the U.S. in the early 1980's. That's why public attitudes toward drunk driving changed, why the term "designated driver" came into use.

Even relatively recently, the U.S. still had a higher proportion of alcohol-related driving fatalities when compared to other countries, and, prior to 2002, we had the highest legal BAC limit for impaired driving.
Quote:
In terms of alcohol-impaired driving and related fatalities, a recent NHTSA study that compared DUI laws in the United States to those in comparable nations, such as the European Union States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and Brazil, found that the United States had the highest proportion of traffic fatalities that were alcohol-related among the 12 countries reporting data. The same study found that the United States has the highest legal BAC limit for impaired driving—.10 at the time of publication (2000)—and relatively lax enforcement as compared to nations like Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, and Spain where mandatory random breath testing and sobriety checkpoints were reported to be frequent and prevalent.
http://www.chooseresponsibility.org/frequently_asked_questions/#comparecountries
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 12:03 pm
@BillRM,
You just can't deal with any actual data that contradicts your preconceived ideas.

Binge drinking is prevalent. And binge drinking is involved in a high percentage of DUI arrests and accidents.

I bet there were many other binge drinkers in that bar with Thom Swift that night, it's just that the others who drove home were fortunate enough not to get involved in a fatal DUI accident.

Who do you work for--the liquor lobby?

ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 12:20 pm
@BillRM,
You wouldn't be willing to not have a drink with dinner one night?

~~~

The question really goes back to the title of the thread. I don't understand drinking and driving.


edit: large groups? I didn't mention large groups at all. Not sure why you've thrown that into the hopper. Is it to distract people from how you didn't answer the question about why you want to drink and drive?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 12:32 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

I bet there were many other binge drinkers in that bar with Thom Swift that night,


What evidence do you have that Thom Swift is/was a binge drinker?
 

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