43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 09:35 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The only national body that has
attempted to quantify a maximum
annual public defender caseload is
NAC, which published its standards
in 1973.7 The commission, made up
of elected officials, law enforcement
officers, corrections officials, community
leaders, prosecutors, judges,
and defense attorneys, was appointed
by the administrator of the federal
Law Enforcement Assistance Administration.
In NAC’s report, Standard
13.12 on courts states:
The caseload of a public defender
attorney should not exceed
the following: felonies per attorney
per year: not more than
150; misdemeanors (excluding
traffic) per attorney per year:
not more than 400; juvenile
court cases per attorney per
year: not more than 200; Mental
Health Act cases per attorney
per year: not more than 200;
and appeals per attorney per
year: not more than 25.8



https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bja/185632.pdf

Quote:
The number of criminal cases that court-appointed lawyers in New York City handle will be capped for the first time under a new law tucked in the $131 billion state budget bill passed last week. The measure addresses longstanding pleas from low-paid public defenders, who sometimes juggle more than 100 cases at a time.

Public defenders across the country have complained that large caseloads impede their ability to provide the best advocacy and damage their clients’ chances of getting a fair hearing in court.

Each criminal defense lawyer at the Legal Aid Society, which represents most of the city’s indigent defendants, handles an average of 592 cases a year, or about 103 at a time, said Steven Banks, the society’s attorney in chief. Heavy caseloads make it difficult for his lawyers to properly investigate cases and pursue leads, Mr. Banks said

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/nyregion/06defenders.html

Slice and dice the numbers all you want Firefly, this is no way to run a justice system. What we have is a cattle class "justice" system with the government playing the part of the cowboy and we citizens playing the part of the cattle being prodding down the chute towards what ever punishment the state has decided that we should get.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 09:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
What we have is a cattle class "justice" system.


That is without question now however how long can we even keep the outer face of having a real justice system is now in play.
0 Replies
 
MMarciano
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 09:53 pm
They buried this man today along with his father. It was sad to read his obituary. If I remember correctly he was born on Dec 22nd and killed in the early morning of Dec 23rd. perhaps he was on his way home from a birthday celebration. I’m tired of people in town feeling sorry for Thom, he had a choice and this was the result.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 09:56 pm
@MMarciano,
Quote:
I’m tired of people in town feeling sorry for Thom, he had a choice and this was the result.


But this being America you believe that we all have the right to our own opinions and feelings, right?

I would not risk any money on what your answer is though. Increasingly in America it is not believed that we have the right to have feelings and opinions which run counter to the prescribed ones, we are not that free a people anymore.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 09:58 pm
@MMarciano,
Rest in peace.


I'll check in if there is more news. Stopping with the thread. Someone let me know if there are developments.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 10:15 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Someone let me know if there are developments.


What developments could there be? The only thing that we have yet to find out is how many years in prison the state is going to give Thom. As for anything else we are deemed to not have the right to know, because as Firefly has pointed out so far as the state is concerned the state does not owe us anything.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 10:34 pm
@MMarciano,
MMarciano wrote:
They buried this man today along with his father.
Few men r buried with their fathers; probably not even 1%.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 10:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Certainly, the system will succeed in railroading him into jail

Then he certainly is throwing out his money with a defense attorney isn't he since you've decided they are all inept? Rolling Eyes
And the judge would really have to be asleep at the switch too. Rolling Eyes
And all of this will go on in a public courtroom where no one will notice he's being "railroaded" into jail. Rolling Eyes
It's amazing that you, and only you, will be able to see a complete miscarriage of justice taking place in a public courtroom. Rolling Eyes
Quote:
the system...will never ask whether Thom's actions caused that death

Of course the system will ask that question! He's charged with DUI manslaughter, that's the main question on the table. The defense will try to refute that charge. If the defense can't get the charge dropped, but they can get it lowered with a plea deal, they might suggest Thom accept the plea deal if the state has convincing evidence of DUI manslaughter to present at trial. If they feel they can punch sufficient holes in the state's case, or shift some responsibility to the victim, they might get an even better plea deal or they might suggest Thom go to trial and let a jury decide it. The final decision is up to Thom.
A major issue might be Thom's level of intoxication. If his BAC was .17 or .23, for instance, it might be difficult to prove he didn't contribute to Lancaster's death, even if the bike had no lights and Lancaster had poor vision, because of the even greater impairment of an automobile driver's faculties at those higher levels.
It also will depend on whether there were witnesses to the accident.
It may also depend on the point of impact between the car and the bike--was the bike alongside the car? In front of the car?
The question of whether Thom caused, or contributed to, Lancaster's death will definitely be front and center during the hearings, any plea negotiations, and certainly at trial, if there is one.
Quote:
and will further punish him for breaking the literal commandments of the fleeing the scene law even though he mostly complied with the spirit of what that law was intended to accomplish.

Mostly complied with? The spirit of what the law intended to accomplish?
So, in your mind he only sorta..maybe..complied with some of the spirit of the law. Rolling Eyes
Good grief, a law is a law--exactly as written. And if this case goes to trial, the jury will be given a copy of the law--exactly as written--to decide whether he violated it. "The spirit" of the law doesn't enter in.

He did not stop his car. He did not aid the victim. Those are clear violations of one of the laws.
That he, at some time, may have called the police to report the accident (and simply from the news reports we do not know for sure whether he called the police or they tracked him down) will probably work in his favor, but only in the sense he didn't continue to flee prosecution after he got home, he didn't remain a fugitive from justice. That might help the defense to argue for leniency on that charge.
Quote:
For the state this is a win, for Thom and the rest of us not so much.

The only real win for Thom would be if they could prove someone else was driving his car.

If the defense cannot refute the state's case it will be a win for the state because they will be able to convict the person responsible for driving while drunk and killing someone.
If the defense can sufficiently refute part of the state's case, they might be able to get charges dropped or lowered and that might result in a better plea deal for Thom, and that would be a win for both sides.
If the defense can demonstrate Thom was not legally drunk, or can demonstrate that the BAC testing was faulty and possibly inadmissible as reliable evidence, and that Lancaster was totally at fault for the accident, that would be a win for Thom.

I fail to see where Thom will be railroaded. He has a defense attorney with considerable experience, and a reputation to protect, who will work to see that doesn't happen.






0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 10:53 pm
Quote:
This thread relate to our very very **** up legal system

No it doesn't, check the title of the thread.
But, even given your distortion of what the topic is, you have yet to show that the legal system is fucked up in the way DUI cases are handled.

You have nothing meaningful to say on the case we are discussing. You have a compulsive need to keep posting anyway. You have dragged in Britney Spears, rape, the mentally ill, and now, terrorism.

The only thing fucked up around here is you.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 10:59 pm
@firefly,
Yes dear you would love to be able to control what can and can not be posted on any thread so why do you not start your very own website so you can do so?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

Slice and dice the numbers all you want Firefly, this is no way to run a justice system. What we have is a cattle class "justice" system with the government playing the part of the cowboy and we citizens playing the part of the cattle being prodding down the chute towards what ever punishment the state has decided that we should get.

The material you have posted is dated--in the sense of outdated.

The Dept of Justice Guidelines are 10 years old, the NY Times article is from 2009 and discussed making reductions in caseloads which have already taken place--they began in 2010. So, these issues have been addressed--changes were made to reduce public defenders caseloads.

And nothing you have posted suggests that public defenders are so overworked that their clients are all railroaded into jail. Prosecutors are often overworked as well.

Most people arrested for DUI related offenses are guilty--they were driving drunk, they did cause, or contribute to, accidents and the deaths of other people.

The problem isn't "the system" it's the drunk drivers.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:13 pm

I remain skeptical that Thom *FLED* the scene.
( I still don't know whether we r pronouncing it Tom or like Thread.)
He went home, a short distance nearby in the same area and called the police.

I wonder whether there was any contact
between the 2 vehicles before Barry fell off his dark bike ?
( whether he hit a pothole, or anything )
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:25 pm
@BillRM,
This man is dead.
http://storage.lifetributes.com/Tributes/345281/d7bedba1-6129-411d-8cdc-40ddb19214e2.jpg
A drunk driver is accused of killing him.

That's what this thread is about.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:28 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

This man is dead.
http://storage.lifetributes.com/Tributes/345281/d7bedba1-6129-411d-8cdc-40ddb19214e2.jpg
A drunk driver is accused of killing him.

That's what this thread is about.
U really r a VERY GOOD Researcher, Firefly.

How did u find that ??





David
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:33 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:

I wonder whether there was any contact
between the 2 vehicles before Barry fell off his dark bike ?
( whether he hit a pothole, or anything )

Barry Lancaster didn't fall off the bike--he wasn't run over, he was thrown up against the windshield of the car. Although he possibly could have been run over after that if he slid off the front end of the car.
What makes you think his bike was dark and lacked lights?
Quote:
I remain skeptical that Thom *FLED* the scene.

He's not charged with fleeing the scene.
He's charged with not stopping to aid the victim and leaving the scene of a deadly accident.
Beside the DUI manslaughter charge, of course.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:34 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:

How did u find that ??

http://www.clancygernon.com/obituaries/Barry-Lancaster/#/TributeWall
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:34 am
@firefly,
Quote:
I wonder whether there was any contact
between the 2 vehicles before Barry fell off his dark bike ?
( whether he hit a pothole, or anything )
firefly wrote:
Barry Lancaster didn't fall off the bike--he wasn't run over,
he was thrown up against the windshield of the car.
Although he possibly could have been run over after that if he slid off the front end of the car.
Thank u for your elucidation.


firefly wrote:
What makes you think his bike was dark and lacked lights?
I thought that had been established earlier in this thread.

Quote:
I remain skeptical that Thom *FLED* the scene.

firefly wrote:
He's not charged with fleeing the scene.
He's charged with not stopping to aid the victim and leaving the scene of a deadly accident.
Beside the DUI manslaughter charge, of course.
I see; thank u for straightening that out.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:36 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Did u just Google his name ?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:38 am
@firefly,
Quote:
He's not charged with fleeing the scene.
He's charged with not stopping to aid the victim and leaving the scene of a deadly accident.
Beside the DUI manslaughter charge, of course


Because the meaning of the word "fleeing" is not all similar to the meaning of the word "leaving"....
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:58 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Because the meaning of the word "fleeing" is not all similar to the meaning of the word "leaving"....

Neutral

Same as driving drunk is not at all that much different to driving sober, really, when you actually think about it ....? Wink Rolling Eyes
 

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