43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 03:54 pm
@BillRM,
That's quite a stretch of logic.... even for you.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 03:57 pm
@firefly,
Firefly you complained that we are dealing with one case of DUI in one post then you are complaining that we are talking in too general a manner in another post.

You must think that our collected memory only go back a few posts so you can get away with this nonsense.

You are amusing in how inconsistent you are in a short space on one thread.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 04:00 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
That's quite a stretch of logic.... even for you.


Why Speer was as mentally ill as any homeless person and the courts was more then willing to force treatment for her and turn over the control of her life to her father.

In other word it is not a matter of civil rights but a matter of $$$$$$$$$$$$$
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 04:18 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
But, since you have dismissed Barry Lancaster as a worthless bum, because he was seemingly homeless, we know you have no real concern for those who are indigent or might lack money.


Choosing not to contribute to the collective and being abused by the state are two very different issues. Lack of funds is tangential here, it is the result of choosing not to contribute and it is the reason that most people can not battle the state if the state chooses to come after them.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 04:20 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Thom was able to post bail and to retain an attorney.


We dont know that, we only know that someone did. Many or most times it is the family who does, because individuals rarely have the buy in fee for playing in our "justice"system.
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 04:33 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
So your claimed that mentally ill people had civil rights to destroy themselves only apply for poor people that no one care about.

My severely mentally ill friend I referred to in an earlier post, who was living on the streets and refusing psychiatric treatment, presented no immediate danger to himself or others. In fact, his capacity to survive on the streets, for years, despite being psychotic, was quite remarkable.

He was from an affluent family and they were more than willing to provide and pay for psychiatric treatment. He simply didn't want that treatment. He didn't like the way medication made him feel. He thought people were trying to poison him with the medication. And his civil rights in refusing treatment were fully upheld.

You are perpetuating an ugly myth that mentally ill people must always be considered dangerous and should be locked up.

You are no civil libertarian.

But, I really think you should seek treatment, BillRM. You perseverate irrelevancies. You have no idea of the topic. You have loosening of associations. And, since you have no evidence, at all, that Barry Lancaster was mentally illl, your ability to evaluate reality appears to be excessively influenced by fantasy. Shall I send the police over so you can be psychiatrically hospitalized and medicated against your will?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 04:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
But, since you have dismissed Barry Lancaster as a worthless bum, because he was seemingly homeless,
we know you have no real concern for those who are indigent or might lack money.
hawkeye10 wrote:
Choosing not to contribute to the collective and being abused by the state are two very different issues. Lack of funds is tangential here,
it is the result of choosing not to contribute and it is the reason that most people can not battle the state if the state chooses to come after them.
Let the record show that I advocate that each of our over 3OO,OOO,OOO citizens
refuse to contribute more than is absolutely necessary to the collective
to keep it weak, starved & inoffensive (blessings be unto Heinlein).





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 04:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
individuals rarely have the buy in fee for playing in our "justice"system.

All criminal defendants have an attorney. No one arrested is deprived of a defense attorney.

Meanwhile, Thom managed to post bail and he has an attorney.

So, nothing you are saying is relevant to his case.

No one disagrees that it's better to have money than not to have money.

BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 04:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
We dont know that, we only know that someone did. Many or most times it is the family who does, because individuals rarely have the buy in fee for playing in our "justice"system.


As in taking out second mortgages on a numbers of homes to meet the cost of defending my former co-worker sister from Federal charges by her extended family.

Those mortgages are still being pay off long after the sister husband passed away in prison and the sister finish her sentence and was released.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 04:58 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
As in taking out second mortgages on a numbers of homes to meet the cost of defending my former co-worker sister from Federal charges by her extended family.

Those mortgages are still being pay off long after the sister husband passed away in prison and the sister finish her sentence and was released.

And the moral of that story is, it is financially advantageous not to violate the law and incur legal fees.

Thom incurred his current legal expenses because he was driving drunk. It would have been much cheaper for him to have taken a free Rainbow Ride home from that bar.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 05:16 pm
@firefly,
The moral is not to be charge as guilty or not guilty the bills are the same and second you do not know he was driving drunk or not at this point in time.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 05:26 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The moral is not to be charge as guilty or not guilty the bills are the same and second you do not know he was driving drunk or not at this point in time.

A judge accepted the charges as justified. Therefore, there was evidence, like maybe a BAC level of > .08+ to justify the DUI charge.

He was driving drunk. That doesn't mean the defense won't try to find a loophole or some problem with the testing procedure to try to fight the DUI citation. Although, given the witnesses who observed him drinking in the bar, fighting the DUI may be difficult.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 06:04 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
A judge accepted the charges as justified. Therefore, there was evidence, like maybe a BAC level of > .08+ to justify the DUI charge.


So what???

Our system is not that a judge declare probable cause but when and if a jury declare someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

In fact such hearings are plenty must a rubber stamp and had little meaning.

Like so many other so call safe guards it had long ago stop being must of a safeguard.

There was zero evidence other then a dancer/hooker statement of a gang rape occurring in the Duke case but three young men probable cause hearing did not ofter any protection to them.

Quote:
He was driving drunk


That is your opinion however it had not as yet been proven and I would bet a large amount of money that you would had make a similar statement concerning the guilt of those innocent three young men.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 06:10 pm
I'm collapsing this thread on my 'puter. It has become an excercise in completely insane futility. All you nice people on this thread just keep feeding the two trolls. Why? I want nothing more to do with this idiocy. 'Bye.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 06:12 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
I agree with you. But I want to check in when there is news. It's a quandary. So I'm presently only visually ignoring it.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 06:15 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
All you nice people on this thread just keep feeding the two trolls. Why? I want nothing more to do with this idiocy. 'Bye.


Come back as Firefly and Izzy are not that bad of trolls.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 08:21 pm
@BillRM,
You really are an idiot.

You are doing nothing other than proving you are irrationally paranoid and basically ignorant regarding legal procedures and pre-trial hearings.

Thom is receiving due process. He is adequately represented by a defense attorney. His legal rights are being fully protected. The system is working just as it should. The next court hearing is set for the 10th

You should really consider not posting when you either don't understand the topic or are extremely confused about what the topic is. This isn't a rape case. Rolling Eyes
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 08:54 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
All criminal defendants have an attorney. No one arrested is deprived of a defense attorney.


They get someone who will stand up with them at arraignment and sign a faxed over plea bargain deal, whether they get anything approaching a defense is doubtfull

Quote:
Bob Boruchowitz, a Seattle University law professor and retired King County public defender who has been involved in the case-load issue for three decades, says that an attorney has 1,650 to 1,800 hours per year to dedicate to actual casework. (A 52-week, 40-hour work schedule would have 2,080 hours.)



It's hard to measure exact caseloads in local courts, but the math suggests that each of Yakima's five public defense contractors take on nearly 800 cases a year.

"I believe when you get into that range it is unlikely that a lawyer can provide consistently good representation," Boruchowitz said.

Adding to the time demand are cases that require researching immigration implications or meeting with an interpreter, among other examples, Boruchowitz said.

The 800 estimate for Yakima comes from the fact that about 75 percent, and perhaps more, of defendants are represented by a public defender. The rest hire their own lawyer or resolve the case on their own, city attorneys say.

The numbers might shift further under formulas to count some lesser cases -- such as third-degree suspended driver's license violations and probation cases -- as partial cases. Third-degree license suspensions, which take less time, can make up a third or so of a court's criminal caseload. However, Fessler said adequate review is still necessary to consider the impact of a suspension.

Troy Lee, the Yakima attorney who heads the firm that provides most of Yakima's public defenders, says he believes the state bar's proposal goes too far.

Like city attorney Cutter, he questions where new attorneys would come, whether they would have enough experience and how the city would fund them.

And Lee said questions remain about how the caseload numbers would be interpreted.

For example, defense attorneys may not want to appear at arraignments -- as they do now to speed case processing -- in order to keep their official caseload count down.

Local public defenders have enough time to do their job, Lee said. He said that if the lower numbers were imposed, he might not have enough work to fill a week. He said he already doesn't take on many private cases.

"I could see a lot of scenarios that people haven't thought through. It's just 'let's pass this rule and see what happens.' That's the wrong approach," said Lee, who has held the city's public defense contract for about five years.



http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2011/10/29/supreme-court-rule-would-limit-public-defender-caseloads-require-more-staff-for-city

do the math here firefly...this works out to an average of just over 2 hours per defendant usually from a rookie who can just barely cover their school loans.....this can not be considered a a standing up to the power of the state anywhere but in the lala land that is Firefly's brain.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 09:06 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Thom is receiving due process. He is adequately represented by a defense attorney. His legal rights are being fully protected. The system is working just as it should.


Certainly, the system will succeed in railroading him into jail because a guy died, but will never ask whether Thom's actions caused that death, and will further punish him for breaking the literal commandments of the fleeing the scene law even though he mostly complied with the spirit of what that law was intended to accomplish.

For the state this is a win, for Thom and the rest of us not so much.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 09:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Did you even read the entire article that excerpt came from? It's discussing increasing the number of attorneys handling misdemeanor crimes. It also appears that most of the attorneys handle both private practice and court appointed cases. These are not "rookies" and they are not handling felonies.

And you apparently overlooked this statement from the excerpt you did post.
Quote:

Troy Lee, the Yakima attorney who heads the firm that provides most of Yakima's public defenders, says he believes the state bar's proposal goes too far...

Local public defenders have enough time to do their job, Lee said. He said that if the lower numbers were imposed, he might not have enough work to fill a week....
http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2011/10/29/supreme-court-rule-would-limit-public-defender-caseloads-require-more-staff-for-city

He might not have enough work to fill a week if his caseload was reduced. Rolling Eyes
Quote:
this can not be considered a a standing up to the power of the state anywhere but in the lala land that is Firefly's brain.

I think it's your brain that's in lala land. Laughing Laughing Laughing







 

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