I just don’t understand drinking and driving

@firefly,

I do think Bill must have some kind of night vision problems.

@ehBeth,

Quote:

you kill someone with your car - you will be charged if you are caught

Sorry not true as even if you are at fault in an accident resulting in deaths you will not be charge with manslaughter unless your actions was such a nature to be in total disregard of the safer of others.

You do know that I assume..................

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

I do think Bill must have some kind of night vision problems.

He also has a problem believing drunk drivers kill people.

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@firefly,

Quote:

And Florida law requires drivers of motor vehicles to be sober.

True and someone who is not is guilty of a DUI.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

so now you're telling us cyclists go deaf at night?

??????????????????????????????????

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

he status of the cyclist has NOTHING to do with the charges against the driver

WRONG as if the cyclist actions was such that any driver would had likely hit him then the driver no matter what his conditions happen to be is not guilty of manslaughter.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Sorry not true as even if you are at fault in an accident resulting in deaths you will not be charge with manslaughter unless your actions was such a nature to be in total disregard of the safer of others.

Even if you are at fault and cause deaths you won't be charged with manslaughter? In what world do you live? Isn't killing someone showing a disregard for their safety?

So, you look upon your driver's license as a license to kill?

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@BillRM,

Do you understand the difference between charged and being convicted?

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@firefly,

Quote:

Even if you are at fault and cause deaths you won't be charged with manslaughter? In what world do you live? Isn't killing someone showing a disregard for their safety?

LOL an accident even an accident with deaths does not and never had resulted in manslaughter charges unless there is an element that go far beyond being at fault as in grossly negligent not just negligent.

What world do you live in where we full the prisons with drivers who have had accidents that had result in a death without the element of being grossly negligent being present?

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@firefly,

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Accidental+Killing

Accidental killings that do not result from the defendant's criminal Negligence and do not occur during the commission of a crime are not criminal offenses in these jurisdictions. Some jurisdictions expressly classify accidental killings as excusable or justifiable homicides, such as the state of California, which provides that "[h]omicide is excusable … [w]hen committed by accident and misfortune, or in doing any other lawful act by lawful means, with usual and ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent." CA PENAL § 195. Other states simply omit this class of homicide from their statutes defining prosecutable offenses.

Cross-references

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Too bad you're unfamiliar with Florida traffic law...

Quote:

A vehicular homicide, commonly referred to as a vehicular manslaughter, is the killing of a person or a fetus by an injury to the mother, caused by reckless driving of a vehicle. This crime is proscribed in Florida Statute §782.071.

Reckless driving is driving "any vehicle in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property" (Florida Statute §316.192). This usually involves speeding, driving under influence, or racing. Because the driving is so reckless in vehicular homicide cases, the driver's intent to kill is not necessary to prosecute the crime. Therefore, the prosecution is not required to prove driver's intent to kill such as in a murder case
http://www.meldonlaw.com/library/vehicular-homicide-charge-in-florida-meaning.cfm

DUI is reckless driving.

When you are driving drunk, and hit someone with your car, and kill them, you've certainly shown willful or wanton disregard for their safety.

Driving DUI shows willful disregard of traffic law, as well as willful disregard for safety--alcohol impairs driving and accident avoidance abilities.

Isn't it interesting that all the other drivers on the road that night managed not to hit and kill Barry Lancaster--regardess of the condition of his bike--and that the one who did hit and kill him was drunk.

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@firefly,

In fact being from PA where in dear hunting season accidental deaths in hunting accidents is all too common such deaths rarely results in criminal charges.

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@firefly,

Quote:

DUI is reckless driving.

When you are driving drunk, and hit someone with your car, and kill them, you've certainly shown wanton disregard for their safety.

We been talking about this for pages after pages with such details as the Florida supreme court jury instruction on the matter so where had you been?

There still need to be a showing of cause of the accident being the driver being impair.

If his impairment was not the cause of the accident happening then he is not guilty of manslaughter.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

You don't understand the law at all.

Quote:

There still need to be a showing of cause of the accident being the driver being impair

.
No, for a DUI manslaughter charge, you only have to show that an impaired driver, with a BAC level of .08+, was behind the wheel of the vehicle that caused the death.

Quote:

28.1 DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE (DUI) under Florida Statute § 316.193(1)

To prove the crime of Driving under the Influence (DUI), the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. [The Defendant] drove or was in actual physical control of a vehicle.

2. While driving or in actual physical control of the vehicle, [the Defendant]

Give 2a or b or both as applicable.

a. was under the influence of [alcoholic beverages] [a chemical substance] [a controlled substance] to the extent that [his] [her] normal faculties were impaired.

b. had a [blood] [breath]-alcohol level of .08 or more grams of alcohol per [100 milliliters of blood] [210 liters of breath].
===============================================

28.3 DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE (DUI) CAUSING SERIOUS BODILY INJURY Under Florida Statute § 316.193(3)(a)(b)(c)2

To prove the crime of Driving under the Influence Causing Serious Bodily Injury, the State must prove the two elements required for a DUI and a third element:

3. As a result of operating the vehicle, (defendant) caused or contributed to causing serious bodily injury to (victim).
http://www.tampaflduilawyer.com/Defenses/DUIJuryInstructionsinFlorida.aspx

The state does not need to show that, "the cause of the accident being the driver being impair"--they only need to show that the driver was impaired, and that the operation of the motor vehicle caused or contributed to the death. If a cyclist is hit by a drunk driver, and died as a result of the impact with the car, that fills the bill.

You do not understand the law--and that's been evident throughout this thread.

Quote:

Florida has a "per se" DUI law. This means that once a BAC level of .08 or higher is established, the prosecution does not have to additionally prove impaired driving. The fact that a person was driving with a BAC of .08% or higher is enough. http://www.duiattorney.com/florida/fl-dui-charges

In Florida, DUI manslaughter is defined as DUI resulting in death of any human being.
You're not supposed to be driving drunk--it's illegal. A drunk driver is an impaired driver. Drunk driving is reckless driving.

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@firefly,

If true it is an outrageous and I remember hearing about one case where a man was stop at a traffic light and a drunk woman rear end him and kill herself and because his BAC was higher then .08 he was found guilt of manslaughter in her dead.

I had not been able to find this event yet but it your position is correct it might be indeed very true.

The laws should had commonsense and logic and if an accident would had occur with the driver sober there is no sane reason to find him guilty of manslaughter due to his drinking.

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@firefly,

From your own link there still need to be a showing of cause that being driving DUI does not wipe out the need to show that the person cause the harm or death that resulted.

FELONY DUI BASED ON SERIOUS BODILY INJURY

28.3 DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE (DUI) CAUSING SERIOUS BODILY INJURY Under Florida Statute § 316.193(3)(a)(b)(c)2

To prove the crime of Driving under the Influence Causing Serious Bodily Injury, the State must prove the two elements required for a DUI and a third element:

3. As a result of operating the vehicle, (defendant) caused or contributed to causing serious bodily injury to (victim).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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@firefly,

http://www.ringsmuthlaw.com/DUI/DUI-Manslaughter-Serious-Bodily-Injury.shtml

There are many complex issues that need to be resolved in D.U.I. serious bodily injury and D.U.I. manslaughter cases. Did the accused cause or contribute to the cause of the accident? Was there a mechanical problem or external factor that caused the accident?

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@firefly,

Quote:

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/chapters/chapter7/p2c7s7.8.rtf

To prove the crime of Driving under the Influence Manslaughter, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. (Defendant) drove or was in actual physical control of a vehicle.

2. While driving or in actual physical control of the vehicle, (defendant)

Give 2a or 2b or both as applicable.
a. was under the influence of [alcoholic beverages] [a chemical substance] [a controlled substance] to the extent that [his] [her] normal faculties were impaired.

b. had a [blood] [breath]alcohol level of .08 or more grams of alcohol per [100 milliliters of blood] [210 liters of breath].

3. As a result of operating the vehicle, (defendant) caused or
contributed to the cause of the death of [(victim)] [an unborn quick child].

In other word if you are driving DUI and your brake fail and no one no matter what his condition happen to be could had done anything to prevent the accident you would not be guilty of dui manslaughter.

If a cyclist came out of the dark and no one could had avoidance hitting him then you are not guilty of dui manslaughter.

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@firefly,

This been posted before however take note of the word cause is connect with an neligence element :

not instructing the jury pursuant to a special requested jury instruction containing a negligence element.1 The First District agreed and reversed and remanded for a new trial.

caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1341477.htmlCached
PROCEEDINGS BELOW

Respondent Frederick Van Hubbard (Hubbard) was convicted of DUI manslaughter. Hubbard claimed on appeal that the trial court erred in utilizing a standard jury instruction adopted by this Court and not instructing the jury pursuant to a special requested jury instruction containing a negligence element.1 The First District agreed and reversed and remanded for a new trial. The court began its analysis by noting that the statute at issue, section 316.193, Florida Statutes (1995), was amended in 1986 and construed by this Court three years later in Magaw v. State, 537 So.2d 564 (Fla.1989). Hubbard, 748 So.2d at 289. While emphasizing that Magaw interpreted the amended statute as containing an explicit causation requirement, the court acknowledged that it “makes no mention of negligence or deviation from a reasonable standard of care” by the operator of an automobile. Hubbard, 748 So.2d at 289. Nevertheless, the First District noted that a majority of Florida's district courts of appeal have interpreted Magaw as reading a simple negligence element into the crime of DUI manslaughter. Hubbard, 748 So.2d at 290. The court also recognized the Fourth District's contrary interpretation in Melvin, 677 So.2d at 1318, that Magaw did not “requir [e] that the standard instruction be broadened to specify lack of care as a distinct element.”

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@BillRM,

Interesting how silent you've become on why you think it's 'fair and rational,' for the state to execute a man before examining DNA evidence that could exonerate him.

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I just don’t understand drinking and driving

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