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Is this racism? Dutch Santa tradition

 
 
Cyracuz
 
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2011 08:03 pm
In Holland, Santa Claus, or Sinterklaas, as they call him, does not have reindeer. He has a flying, white horse.
He does not have elves. He has a helper named Zwarte Piet, which translates to Black Pete.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/holidays/2011/12/zwarte_piet_holland_s_favorite_racist_christmas_tradition_.html

Apparently, the Dutch are being accused of racism because of this, but is it racism?
According to the story this originates from, Santa came from Spain, and had with him a helper of African origin. Is it racist to say that a black person is black?

My initial thought when reading this was that perhaps some black people were being a bit touchy, or just wanting to pick a fight, but I am not really sure about what to think.
If it is racist, why is that so?
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Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2011 08:19 pm
@Cyracuz,
I don't see it as racist. After all Black Peter is the good guy who's actually distributing the presents while Santa is kind of lazy and laid back.

Ok...wait a sec...is this kind'a like the lazy white plantation owner and his black slave? I dunno.
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thack45
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2011 08:26 pm
@Cyracuz,
It sounds racist. But for for chrissake a lot of old traditions really are racist (and sexist). This article is horse **** emotion manipulation that sheds absolutely no new light on whatever racism may or may not actually be happening in Holland. The writer is having a go at anyone who's willing to take the bait.
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2011 08:32 pm
@thack45,
Why does it sound racist?

To be honest, I know the story of Santa and Zwarte Piet, since my father grew up in Holland, and I have never associated Zwarte Piet with an African.
But that might be due to some other conditioning. In Norway we have the expression "svarte per", which also translates to "black pete". It means a person who conducts shady activities, or who has trouble keeping on the right side of the law. It has no relation to black human beings, but rather to the idea that people who do illegal or dishonest things don't want light shed on it, hence "black".
It's not racist. But if some black human being came and accused me of being racist on the background of the expression "svarte per", I would even go so far as saying that he is being racist, assuming that I am such a degenerate human being that I use the word "black" to make a negative association to black people.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2011 08:52 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Why does it sound racist?

To be honest, I know the story of Santa and Zwarte Piet, since my father grew up in Holland, and I have never associated Zwarte Piet with an African.
But that might be due to some other conditioning. In Norway we have the expression "svarte per", which also translates to "black pete". It means a person who conducts shady activities, or who has trouble keeping on the right side of the law. It has no relation to black human beings, but rather to the idea that people who do illegal or dishonest things don't want light shed on it, hence "black".
It's not racist. But if some black human being came and accused me of being racist on the background of the expression "svarte per", I would even go so far as saying that he is being racist, assuming that I am such a degenerate human being that I use the word "black" to make a negative association to black people.


Exactly. We have a western outlaw, real or fictional called "Black Bart". He was white. I've also heard of Black Irish. Not sure of the meaning, but I bet they aren't black. Hey, maybe there's an Irish slur in there somewhere.
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thack45
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2011 09:05 pm
@Cyracuz,
It sounds racist because it can be made to sound racist. Just as the opportunistic author of the **** article you provided did. nothing against you
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2011 09:07 pm
@thack45,
I agree. I do not mean the article so much as the story itself. A Spanish Santa with an African helper. Where does it get racist?
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2011 09:09 pm
@Cyracuz,
It gets racist as soon as anyone mentions race. Not a moment sooner.
0 Replies
 
 

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