10
   

What is your Christian response to this?

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 01:16 am
@revelette,
Why did it suprise you that I'm not a Christian?

I consider Jesus to have been about as enlightened as a human being can be, but I don't accept that he was anymore a child of God than you or me, and I doubt he actually claimed to be a living god.

As I understand the religion though, to be a Christian, I must accept that Jesus was literally "the son of God" and that his dying somehow "saved" me.

I don't.

Since you "admit" you are a Christian, I presume you meet the requirements of belief, and endeavor to live your life as Jesus lived his.

What views to you attribute to "Republican conservative Christians" that seem, to you, to differ from the Gospel of Christ?



revelette
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 10:59 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Not sure why it surprised me, just did.

We all have different beliefs.

The whole general beliefs expressed by most conservatives today seem to go against the teachings of Christ. Perhaps they think the needs of the poor and needy can be taken care of voluntarily rather than by the government thus in keeping with the teachings of Christ. I think that taking care of the needy and the poor can be more efficient through the government rather than relying on the iffy generosity of volunteers. Moreover, lately in these debates the statements from various republicans concerning the poor and the needy have not really reflected the teachings of the Christ, IMO.

Quote:
Luk 6:24 ¶ But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.


Luk 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.


Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.


Luk 6:27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,


Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.


Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not [to take thy] coat also.


Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.


Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.


Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.


Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.


Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.


Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.


Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


Those words and words like those hardly sound like words that I have been hearing from the evangelist wing so to speak of the republican party. Democrats are not really better. Doubt Jesus would have aligned himself with any party. However, democrats as a general rule don't go around claiming a monopoly on Christianity. My own preacher does the same though he has been told to pipe it down, told that politics has no place in the church much less the pulpit.

My point though I cant seem to express it well and it has taken me too long as it is, is that it seems as though a lot of Christians who happen to be republican, go on about school prayers and gay marriage but totally ignore all the parts about taking care of the poor and needy in the Bible. It just my impression.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 03:25 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
The whole general beliefs expressed by most conservatives today seem to go against the teachings of Christ. Perhaps they think the needs of the poor and needy can be taken care of voluntarily rather than by the government thus in keeping with the teachings of Christ. I think that taking care of the needy and the poor can be more efficient through the government rather than relying on the iffy generosity of volunteers. Moreover, lately in these debates the statements from various republicans concerning the poor and the needy have not really reflected the teachings of the Christ, IMO.


Of course you have a right to your opinion (implied by your use of seem) but you made a rather broad and definitive statement on the faith of conservative Christians, based only upon your opinion...an opinion, by the way, which was quite wrong about my personal faith; especially since I have indicated on many occasions that I am not a Christian.

{This last bit is interesting because it seems that quite a few of your fellow travelers, have assumed I am a Christian. Why do you think that's so?}

If you can find where Jesus addressed, in The Gospel, the issue of the relative efficiency of personal and governmental charity then you are quite the Biblical scholar.

Somehow I don't think Jesus would look kindly upon one Christian questioning the faith of another based on the mechanisms of charity, but then you know your Savior better than do I.

From your citations, it seems Luke might have been the original Occupier.

I could be wrong, but I suspect that you are a Christian who does not believe in the absolute inerrancy of The Bible, and yet you seem to want to take the most literal interpretations of it when it suits your political faith.

I appreciate that you're not insisting that liberal Christians do any better of a job abiding by their Lord's teaching, however I suspect that the Son of God is able to see the similarity between those who loudly proclaim a monopoly on Christianity and those who do so in their minds and in their dining rooms.

My bet is that you have no idea of what conservative Christians think or do about charity, and so your impression is suspect at best.

Without doubt, I'm sure that there are people who express their "Christianity" only in terms of same sex marriage and school prayer, but your suggestion is that this is the rule and not the exception.

Seems pretty judgmental, and I thought Christians deferred to God when it came to judging.

Didn't Jesus say something about people in glass houses throwing stones?

Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 03:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
"Didn't Jesus say something about people in glass houses throwing stones?"

I doubt it, even being the prognosticator that he was...

clear glass was not invented until the 15th century.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 04:19 pm
@Rockhead,
Ooops...

More like let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Same difference, but if he was truly the Son of God, I'm betting he knew about glass.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 06:34 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
We all have different beliefs.


This is very true. I talk with many different people on many sites studying different behaviors.
I have not read nor focused enough on your replies for me to say that I somewhat understand your character but from what you are saying at the moment you seem to sense an empathetical difference between the republican party's ideology and the democratic party's ideology not that the democrats are actually doing a better job.

The strange thing is I bet that most democrats would agree that everyone should work if they are capable, even if they are in a wheelchair, a telephone could be directed to their resident and they could be an answering service or something different. I also bet that most dems would think they should be paid a living wage and not be taken advantage of.

The big difference between my thinking and many others is, I think people who labor hard in the field {construction workers, factory workers and so on} should be rewarded far greater than what they are and the government should be there to help many of them who are intellectually challenged from making grave mistakes in finance and other areas of life that they may not be intellectually able to manage.

I see huge social injustices from my point of view.


Quote:
The whole general beliefs expressed by most conservatives today seem to go against the teachings of Christ.


That is how I see it too. I am an atheist but find value in the ethical teachings of Jesus.


Quote:
I think that taking care of the needy and the poor can be more efficient through the government rather than relying on the iffy generosity of volunteers.


Are you looking for a empathetic society? To actually make sure that people are taken care of rather than chancing it? You do not like the [antisocial way} republican way? You do not sound like a sociopath to me. Idea

I do not think that all republicans are sociopaths. To me there ideology seems to be that way though.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 09:44 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
The big difference between my thinking and many others is, I think people who labor hard in the field {construction workers, factory workers and so on} should be rewarded far greater than what they are and the government should be there to help many of them who are intellectually challenged from making grave mistakes in finance and other areas of life that they may not be intellectually able to manage.


What you are saying here is that your value judgments are more just than the collective's.

If the products of trademen and factory workers was considered equal in value to that of actors and athletes, the former would be receiving the same rate of compensation as the latter.

There was a time when the bricklayer and carpenter were rewarded more greatly than any actor or acrobat, but no more.

The Marketplace is the manifestation of our collective judgments on value, and it figures out reward levels without relying upon the bias of a self-appointed elite.

0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 10:07 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
If you can find where Jesus addressed, in The Gospel, the issue of the relative efficiency of personal and governmental charity then you are quite the Biblical scholar.


I never said he did nor do I think there is anything in the bible one way or another. I just personally think it is more efficient to have organized programs set up to help the needy. If a Christian believes that should be voluntary, then I don't see anything wrong with that. (not that I have a right to judge in any case)

Quote:
From your citations, it seems Luke might have been the original Occupier.


Those verses I left can also be found in the other gospels and all of them are words in the red indicating they were spoken by Jesus.

Quote:
My bet is that you have no idea of what conservative Christians think or do about charity, and so your impression is suspect at best


I think there have been enough republican who claim to have have Christian values expressing their opinions on the poor and needy for me to get a fair idea.

Quote:
"Don't blame Wall Street, don't blame the big banks -- if you don't have a job and you are not rich, blame yourself!" Herman Cain


Quote:
Rep. Sally Kern, R-Oklahoma City, said minorities earn less than white people because they don’t work as hard and have less initiative.
“We have a high percentage of blacks in prison, and that’s tragic, but are they in prison just because they are black or because they don’t want to study as hard in school? I’ve taught school, and I saw a lot of people of color who didn’t study hard because they said the government would take care of them.


Quote:
"My grandmother was not a highly educated woman, but she told me as a small child to quit feeding stray animals," Bauer told an audience in the town of Fountain Inn, according to the Greenville News. "You know why? Because they breed."

"You're facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply," Bauer continued. "They will reproduce, especially ones that don't think too much further than that. And so what you've got to do is you've got to curtail that type of behavior. They don't know any better."Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer



I could spend some more time finding more quotes, but there isn't any need. I don't how many times I have heard statements from republican politicians many of them in some kind of support of promoting Christian values espouses views like government handouts and the like.

Quote:
Without doubt, I'm sure that there are people who express their "Christianity" only in terms of same sex marriage and school prayer, but your suggestion is that this is the rule and not the exception.

Seems pretty judgmental, and I thought Christians deferred to God when it came to judging.

Didn't Jesus say something about people in glass houses throwing stones?


My experience is that it is more the rule rather than the exception.

I am not judging, merely making a point that there is more to Christianity than forcing morals down the throats of people.

And yes Jesus did say that those with a big plank in their eye should not be worrying about the speck in their brother's eye. I am not perfect, I am guilty of all kinds of sins and bad habits. I may have been guilty of judging that of which I am guilty, but in that case probably every time i write something about republicans or anyone else of the opposition I do the same. But in this case, I really don't think so. I think it is just as needful to worry about morals in your private life if you are a christian than it is to worry about the needy. Like I said though, a lot of republicans who are Christians probably believe taking care of the needy should be voluntary and that is their right and not my right to judge. However, some of the statements by some republicans seem to express a disdain for those in needy situations.

0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 10:11 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
The strange thing is I bet that most democrats would agree that everyone should work if they are capable, even if they are in a wheelchair, a telephone could be directed to their resident and they could be an answering service or something different. I also bet that most dems would think they should be paid a living wage and not be taken advantage of.


I agree with both those statements with the clarification that sometimes even a person in a wheelchair may have other health problems which would either prevent them from working at all or enough hours to sustain them without some kind of assistance. Every case is different and there is a lot of waste and fraud but I think they have been working on rooting that out in the last decade.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 06:40 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
sometimes even a person in a wheelchair may have other health problems which would either prevent them from working at all or enough hours to sustain them without some kind of assistance. Every case is different and there is a lot of waste and fraud but I think they have been working on rooting that out in the last decade.


I agree completely, I would think that many people that are disabled would not mind helping out if they could because it would make them feel even more as a part of society.
We have great problems with our society that if things were managed by political scientist and social engineers and not political engineers things would be more prosperous for the the majority instead of the minority of the wealthy.

I think crime rate would be lowered along with many of the psychological problems that society has. Things would not drastically improve over night because we have a very sick society which would take a very long time to turnaround in my opinion.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 09:06 am
@reasoning logic,
I admit you went over my head, don't really understand,

Quote:
We have great problems with our society that if things were managed by political scientist and social engineers and not political engineers things would be more prosperous for the the majority instead of the minority of the wealthy.


to be able to comment on it.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 03:40 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
I admit you went over my head, don't really understand,


What had happened was that I made huge mistakes and did not make any sense. Sorry about that as I was in a hurry when I wrote it.

What I had meant to say is We have great problems with our society and if things were not managed by political scientist, social engineers nor political engineers things would be more prosperous for the the majority of people instead of the minority {the extreme wealthy}.
Do not get me wrong because I do think that social engineering could be OK if done in an ethical way. It would also be nice to bring science into our social system in a way that would be prosperous to us all.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 05:28 pm
This video seems to be well put together with some of the best minds out there.

0 Replies
 
Zanna
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 10:25 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
Well said. I agree.
0 Replies
 
Zanna
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 10:44 am
@revelette,
Amen!! I totally agree with you. Most Christians do harp on the soap box about gay rights/marriage issues, prayer, and the so-called 10 commandments, while ignoring the one that we are told to remember btw. They also are bold to profess to be Christians, but don't follow his example or his words at all. Instead, they beat down those who are "the law unto themselves" with Bibles in hand. How rude!!!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2012 06:35 pm
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 04:56 pm
@reasoning logic,
Where are the puddles? I know its hot there and water can evaporate but it doesn't happen that fast. I call BS on this one.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 06:07 pm
@Baldimo,
I don't think that the military is taking your advise. 2 Cents
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jan, 2012 06:11 pm
@Zanna,
"Most" Christians?

"So-called" 10 Commandments?

Which ones are we "told to remember," and by whom?
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jan, 2012 07:40 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
We are not necessarily told to forget the ten commandments, it is just that some of them were not meant for anyone but Israel. Remembering the Sabbath was in remembrance of when God took Israel by the hand and led them out of Egypt. Jesus said he came not to destroy the law but to fulfill them. If people believe that Jesus was/is the messiah then Jesus fulfilled the law. We are told to remember the two greatest commandments and all the rest hang on those two. Love God with all your heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself.

(least that is the way I interpret the scripture, other might interpret it differently)
 

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