truth
Gel, I'm sceptical about research into the physical basis of mystical experience. Aside from the possibility of agendas on the part of religious proselytizers, my concern is with the logic of the process. Mention of the loss of feelings of separateness are generally phrased in terms of a sense of articulation of the self with God. This is fundamentally a dualist perspective. Becoming united with God is not the same as realizing one's essential unity with all else (even God). It should be kept in mind that if the experience of non-duallism is reflected in physical conditions, this "reflection" is not adequately described in terms of causality. They are corollaries, distinct expressions of a single process. Similarly, if non-dualism is going to be "explained away" in physicalist and causal terms, the same must be done with respect to dualistic experience. This would apply to all philosophy and, even, the scientific thinking guiding the research itself. In non-dualist terms I see no separateness between experience (including "religious", mystical and philosophical perspectives) and our physical natures. The mind-body unity is philosophically obvious, and is gradually becoming so in scientific discourse.
I agree with JLN; there are too many experiments with human physiology and psychology that shows how our minds can control our heart beats, sense of calm, influence our well-being, and/or become destructive of other humans by so-called "good" people. "Feelings of love for god" is not a christian phenomenon. It happened long before the time of christ.
Re: truth
JLNobody wrote:Gel, I'm sceptical about research into the physical basis of mystical experience. Aside from the possibility of agendas on the part of religious proselytizers, my concern is with the logic of the process. Mention of the loss of feelings of separateness are generally phrased in terms of a sense of articulation of the self with God. This is fundamentally a dualist perspective. Becoming united with God is not the same as realizing one's essential unity with all else (even God). It should be kept in mind that if the experience of non-duallism is reflected in physical conditions, this "reflection" is not adequately described in terms of causality. They are corollaries, distinct expressions of a single process. Similarly, if non-dualism is going to be "explained away" in physicalist and causal terms, the same must be done in terms of dualistic experience. This would apply to all philosophy and, even, the scientific thinking guiding the research itself. In non-dualist terms I see no separateness between experience (including "religious", mystical and philosophical perspectives) and our physical natures. The mind-body unity is philosophically obvious, and is gradually becoming so in scientific discourse.
God is the process ... there is no obelisk .... only a metaphor. For instance, my God is a Shimano reel spooled with 8# Trilene on a 6'6" Ugly Stick spinning rod. The line is tipped with a #6 red Salmon hook buried in a 6" black rubber worm, a 1/4 oz split shot about a foot up from the hook. I'm standing on the bank of a 5 acre farm pond in early spring, before the weeds take over, and the water is SCREAMING large mouth. I notice a swirl in the water under a willow that hangs over the water about 50 - 60 yards down the bank, just a small ripple that to most would go un-noticed. I walk to about 20 yards from the swirl, close enough to over cast 5 or 6 feet. A perfect cast kerplunks into the water resulting in instant swirl ..... I leave the bail open just in case, don't want to spook him. Forty seconds or so later I close the bail, reel up the slack and .... bump bump .... i feel him on the end of my line ...... damn, I hope he is still on there, I lift the rod tip high ... nothing. again I take out the slack and twitch the rod tip in a series of cranks then BAM ....... stay cool ... open the bail and give him line .... eassy ... the line stops ...slowly tI close the bail and reel til I can feel his weight, and he can feel mine .... the line inches out, I lean into him and WHAM the hook is set and the battle is joined .... my God tail walks across the water in ultra slow motion, oa religious moment for me that becomes one more 'bottled memory'. dn
God is the process, a patience.
Gels, This one's for you, buddy. Couldn't resist.
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A woman goes into a Rebel Sports store to buy a rod and reel for her grandson's twenty first birthday. She doesn't know which one to get so
she grabs one and takes it over to the counter. The check-out clerk is standing there wearing dark shades.
"Excuse me, young man," she says, "can you tell me anything about this rod and reel?"
"Ma'am," he says, "I'm completely blind, but if you'll drop it on the counter, I can tell you everything you need to know about it from the
sound it makes."
She doesn't believe him but drops it on the counter anyway.
"That's a eight-foot surf caster Shakespeare graphite 667 Model rod," the clerk says, "fitted with a Shimano Calcutta 400 reel spooled with 20
pound Berkley Fireline. It's a good all around combination and it's on sale this week for only $199.00."
"That's amazing!" she says. "You can tell all that just by the sound of it dropping on the counter? I'll take it!"
As she opens her purse, her credit card drops on the floor. As she bends down to pick it up, she accidentally breaks wind.
At first she is really embarrassed, but then realizes it's not likely that the blind clerk could tell it was she who farted. He may not know that she was the only person around.
The man rings up the sale and says, "That'll be $254.50, please."
The woman is totally confused by this and asks, "Didn't you tell me it was on sale for $199.00? How did you get $254.50?"
"Ma'am," he replies, "the rod and reel are $199.00. But the duck caller is $36.00. And the fishing bait is $19.50."
Light'n up once-in-awhile, JLN.
I had a girl friend that did that. She loved to embarass me by doing it in the grocery store.
truth
Oh my God, is THAT what I said?
Kids say the darndest things
