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It's crunch time, place your bets, Dean or Kerry?

 
 
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 05:20 am
Am I being too naive in thinking that Clark will make Dean his vice president should he get the nomination despite all the advantages having a straight talking northrener with lots of well organized support, 40 million dollars, experience with domestic policy, experience balancing budgets that appeals to young voters and the kind of voters that don't want a general in office would bring? I would prefer 8 yrs of Clark followed by 8 years of Dean over 4 years of Bush followed by Hillary Clinton's nomination and another Republican victory.

Who do you think would make the best president?

Who do you think has the best chance to beat bush?

Who do you think will the primaries?

Who do you think/hope will be the running mate?

And the all important why?

My answers:

1. Dean would be the best president IMO. He (as stated by angie) "is genuinely bright, tough, fair-minded, and intent upon making changes that truly improve life for "regular" Americans is starting to have a tough time competing with the polished politicians. He speaks in normal cadence, he doesn't work the cameras, he shares honest thoughts (some of which aren't always "right") rather than spouting rehearsed, ambiguous, empty sound bites. "

I like his candor, I like the way the guy thinks, and I hate how the media picks on him so much for speaking his mind and telling the truth. There isn't a single statement he has ever made that I disagree with.

The caucuses ARE dominated by special interests.

Gore did NOT have the persona to appeal to voters.

The democrats DO need to appeal to the guys driving around with confederate flags in their pick up trucks.

There WERE some positive aspects to what happened in Pakistan a few years ago.

And capturing Saddam has NOT made america any safer.

If the media didn't spoon feed opinions into peoples head so much and just presented his statements without all their biased opinions, I think most americans would agree with his statements and would respect him for his candor.

And above all, I think they would connect with him and see him for what he is, a brilliantly insightful and knowledgable individual. Infact, I think that the best thing Dean can do right now if he wins the nominations is to continue speaking his mind. Voters will connect to it when they hear it from him instead of having it spoonfed to them from biased sources.

I also think that Dean is suprisingly moderate and WILL balance the budget without letting americans lose jobs and without stifling corporations. I think he will revoke the tax cuts, cut unneccesary expenditures, cut the defense budget, do whatever it takes to do so without hurting the economy. I think that he is a politician despite his denials and think that all the candidates except for Kucinich are as well. All of them including Dean say what they don't believe in order to win the primaries and will say what they truly believe, a more moderate stance, in order to win the election.

As much as the liberals here will disagree, radical ideas like tariffs across the board that Kucinich proposes WILL stifle businesses and the american economy as a result. We need a common sense liberal, a liberal that acknowledges that business does play a valueble role in america, in the white house

I don't believe any of the candidates except for Kucinich opposed the war as strongly as they claimed to. I think all of them believed the whole weapons of mass destruction arguement and wanted Saddam taken out and Iraq liberated though they all probably wished we would do it with more support.

2. Clark has the best chance to beat Bush simply because of his resume. A general, a southrener, a gun owner, he's got what middle americans are looking for. But unfortunately, I get the sense whenever he speaks that he doesn't have a clue how government or politics works. He often just rants on about his stories in the army and when he does talk about the issues only glooses over them in superficial terms with little real insight into them. The more I hear him speak, the less I see him as knowledgable or insightful enough to be a good president (though still infinately better off than Bush). Sitting out of the debates so that the other candidates can talk about the real issues as well as drag both Dean and themselves into mud was the best political move he ever made. (Edit: I feel like I just put my foot in my mouth with that prediction)

3. I don't know who will win. I want Dean to be president. But I want Clark to take on Bush. Dean forced to take such strong liberal stands so openly that I don't think he'll be able to tell americans what he real thinks and believes and thus attract the moderates (the common sense americans) if he gets the nomination. And the media is doing such a good job overanalyzing every thing he says that he won't be able to speak his mind and thus connect with the voters as an incredibly bright guy who speaks his mind.

4. I want Clark to get the nomination and Dean to be Clark's running mate. That way, Dean can bring in the out of the beltway voters, northners and all his young supporters to the booths and Clark can win. Dean can play an active role in the domestic issues that I think Clark will often have to sit on the sidelines for. And 8 years later, Dean will probably win the presidency if he proves to be as intelligent and capable as he strikes me to be. I really don't want Hillary to have a go at it anytime soon. But thanks to the idiotic fight that Clark so stupidly started with Dean on the airwaves, I don't see that playing out.

(Edit: Simply change every reference to Clark to Kerry)
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,352 • Replies: 69
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Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 05:26 am
I think it really is down to Dean and Clark. Gephardt has little to go on once Iowa is over. Edwards and Kerry have nothing on Dean. Edwards is too young and Kerry too negative towards Dean and too awkward to connect with voters. If Clark does better than expected in New Hampshire and the remaining candidates lose their momentum as is likely, he will be the anti-dean candidate. And going into the southren states, he has a huge advantage. I could very well see him snatch victory out of Deans hands. Unless of course, he decides to participate in the debates/speak more openly without improving the lack of substance his speeches often have.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 05:47 am
I think Bush is back in.....but I like Dean better than Clark. I will of course throw my support behind whoever ends up the nominee.

I like Edwards, and I'm glad to see him picking up a little steam and hanging in there. I don't think we've heard the last of him.

I'm wondering if Hillary will be offered the Veep spot on the ticket, not like I think she'd take it.
Senator is a more pwerful and high profile job.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 06:43 am
Dean
I think that he will improve his style. I heard him say to Ann Richards that he will work hard on that. Clark is real adament about not accepting VP. I don't think he will change his mind. If Dean does win I feel that he would offer Clark, Secl of Defense.

Dean/Edwards would be a strong pair.

In order for Dean to win, the present Regime must screw up some more and more revalations about their behind the scene operations must surface.

Jobs won't be back in any decent number for Dubya to brag about.

I think Iraq will be a failure because civil war will break out and American business won't be able to operate there for at least another year or more. Afghanistan is a failure in spite of the progress.
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Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 07:08 am
pistoff, I'm talking about if Clark wins, will he offer the VP spot to Dean, and will Dean be a good sport and accept it?

jjorge, if Clark gets the nomination, would you start a blog on dean for america asking dean supporters to write letters to Clark convincing him to make Dean his running mate?

Think about what Dean gives Clark...

the out of the beltway voters
northners and antigeneral democrats
all his young supporters that backed Dean
an experienced VP who can play an active role in the domestic issues that I think Clark will often have to sit on the sidelines for

And 8 years later, Dean will probably win the presidency if he proves to be as intelligent and capable as he strikes me to be.
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Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 07:27 am
everyone keeps saying how clark has grown as a speaker.

honestly i can't judge since he wasn't in any of hte recent debates and hasn't spoken on tv in a while

anyone have any video i could look at of him speaking? i just want some evidence that he is a.) intelligent b.) knowledgable of domestic affairs adn c.) is not just spouting out trite sound bites and is actually speaking his mind.

if anyone can offer that, i'm more than ready to be a clark guy.
0 Replies
 
yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 07:40 am
Centroles wrote:
everyone keeps saying how clark has grown as a speaker.

honestly i can't judge since he wasn't in any of hte recent debates and hasn't spoken on tv in a while

anyone have any video i could look at of him speaking? i just want some evidence that he is a.) intelligent b.) knowledgable of domestic affairs adn c.) is not just spouting out trite sound bites and is actually speaking his mind.

if anyone can offer that, i'm more than ready to be a clark guy.

a. He graduate first in his class from West Point and was a Rhode Scholar.
b. He was an investment banker so he knows about the economy. He has laid out a detailed tax plan. No tax for families of 4 making up to $50,000 sounds a lot better than Dean's "repeal it all!" That's another reason why Clark is the better candidate. Bush just has too much ammo on Dean.
c. This is politics. How many people actually speak their mind?
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 07:41 am
I hope they pick the one who has the best chance of beating that stinking piece of human scum that's there now.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 09:28 am
Centroles wrote:
anyone have any video i could look at of him speaking? i just want some evidence that he is a.) intelligent b.) knowledgable of domestic affairs adn c.) is not just spouting out trite sound bites and is actually speaking his mind.

if anyone can offer that, i'm more than ready to be a clark guy.


Go here for several video links:

http://clark04.com/downloads/videos/

This is the autobiographical campaign video:

American Son
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 09:51 am
Anyone but Bush.

Why? Because Bush is an evil man!
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 10:48 am
I greatly dislike Bush, but I will not stoop to a "Anyone but Bush" stance. I think this stance is harmful to democracy. This type of attitude is what lost the election for the Dems in 2000.

I will not vote for a Democratic candidate that does not earn my respect -- period. If Lieberman, for example, wins the nomination, I will vote third party.

I don't know if I will vote for Clark -- it depends on the campaign he runs but I am not impressed at this point. The "I am not Bush and I can win" argument is very weak with me.

But, if we are going to have another four years of policies that are harmful, I would prefer that Bush is in office during this time.

The stupid things Bush has done will all start to hurt Americans in 2 or 3 years after the election. I include the deficit, the morrass in Iraq, health care neglect and Medicare etc. I certainly don't want a Democrat in office when these things start to bite.

My point is that we need a big change from the current administration. We need someone who can come in and change the direction the country is going in. This is why I support Dean.

If this doesn't happen now, I want Bush in office to take the fall when these ludicrous policies start to fall down around him. Then in 4 more years we have a chance that the American public will wake up and demand decent leadership.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 10:57 am
I will vote the Democratic ticket this year. Last two times I voted Nader. Bush is much too dangerous to be kept in for a second term. I don't say this as a partisan, but simple logic. As a realist, I have to agree with those who predict Bush will beat any candidate offered. Why? Because the press shrugs away Bush's defects and compliments his most mediocre statements. Look how seriously they treated his plan to go to Mars, knowing full well congress will not allow such a change in the space program. Average Joe hears no alarm bells since he only watches this crap they are passing off for news.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 11:26 am
Lieberman is from my state (Connecticut) and I even know several people who know him at least casually. From everything I hear, he is personally a really nice guy. But he was our attorney General and is our Senator so I have had a long time to observe him politically and he is too conservative for my taste. That said, given the corrupt creep we have for a governor, I'd support him in a heart beat for that office. We need someone to clean this state up. I like Dean because he is both a centrist, look at his record as governor of Vermont, and he address issues directly, which given the media consultant controlled system we have at present passes for wild eyed radicalism. Politically Dean has problems but I think they are in part the stereotypes that are applied to northeast politicians as tax and spend liberals, which Dean is definitely not, and which I think can be easily addressed.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 11:41 am
Quote:
Edwards is too young


Edwards is 50 years old, he just looks young.
0 Replies
 
yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 12:02 pm
Edwards is 50?! He looks like he's 40!

I would vote for Lieberman... if he was running against Bin Laden.
Lieberman, Bush, what's the difference? If hell freezes over and Lieberman is nominated it may be a great opportunity for a 3rd party.
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 12:33 pm
I think it will come down to Dean or Clark. I would support either one over Bush (or Daffy Duck, for that matter.) Personally, I prefer Clark.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 01:30 pm
Not Dean or Clark.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 01:34 pm
CI, then who?
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Heywood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 02:39 pm
I didn't think that I would fall into the "anyone but Bush" category myself, but that was before I really delved into the effects of the Bush administration and the many terrible things that they've done.

At this point, I will support ANYONE who runs against Bush. Even if I do not agree with everything that the candidtate believes in (whomever it may be), I know that I have been sufficiently disgusted with the actions of Bush and his puppet masters to know that a vote for Bush is a vote for corporate control, corruption, lies, distortion, secrecy, and a gradual removal of our civil liberties.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 03:21 pm
Not a clear cut choice.
For me it isn't a clear cut choice because I prefer Kucinich. His policies are real departure from the status quo and ones I agree with. I know that he has zero chance. It will most likely be Dean. I can tolerate Dean and will vote for him or Clark. The notion that a Dem will recieve the brunt of the disaster that Dubya has wrought will be understood by most Americans. They will gripe but not be outraged.
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