14
   

School is having "freedom day" to discuss 9/11

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 08:22 am
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:
I bet you DD and i are at best maybe 20 miles apart ,

No bet, here. Austin just isn't that big.

The Capitol building is 19 miles from Round Rock and 16 miles from Buda.....
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 09:07 am
I am very confused about this.

DD, good thread. I saw it when you first started it, but this is the first time I clicked and read.

I didn't want to even look at any more 911 stuff here because of the memorial thread TTH started, where being the least bit negative about the attending pageanty of the day made one a lower than a slugs belly and a scumbag.

Not addressing this to anyone here in particular, but I am confused how one is supposed to reconcile "Never Forget", some people advocate, never, I assume meaning being passed on to future generations, and realizing (very sanely) that children who were not even born, or were very young, really don't need this pushed on them.

When it comes down to it, what's the difference between easing off as far a with the kids, and the stopping of forcing some media circus down the throats of the public in general, for 2 weeks prior, and the week after?

Thank God it's abating now. It'd be nice if some people could realize they can remember something and think about it, without the person sitting next to them know what they are doing.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 09:55 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I am very confused about this.

DD, good thread. I saw it when you first started it, but this is the first time I clicked and read.

I didn't want to even look at any more 911 stuff here because of the memorial thread TTH started, where being the least bit negative about the attending pageanty of the day made one a lower than a slugs belly and a scumbag.

Not addressing this to anyone here in particular, but I am confused how one is supposed to reconcile "Never Forget", some people advocate, never, I assume meaning being passed on to future generations, and realizing (very sanely) that children who were not even born, or were very young, really don't need this pushed on them.When it comes down to it, what's the difference between easing off as far a with the kids, and the stopping of forcing some media circus down the throats of the public in general, for 2 weeks prior, and the week after?

Thank God it's abating now. It'd be nice if some people could realize they can remember something and think about it, without the person sitting next to them know what they are doing.


It's quite simple really.

Never forgetting doesn't require young children to be shown gruesome images. Talking to them about it is sufficent until they reach an age when they can process the brutal facts.

In none of the 9/11 ceremonies were images of splattered or even falling "jumpers" shown.

It take a particulary callous or mean spirit to grow tired of and annoyed with some time being spent on a single day of the year to publically remember the people who died on 9/11.
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 10:13 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
It take a particulary callous or mean spirit to grow tired of and annoyed with some time being spent on a single day of the year to publically remember the people who died on 9/11.


That's not the point being discussed. It is the school situation where no choice exists for the kids who are by nature impressionable and subject to the sentiments of those conducting what is a compulsory seminar.

One might argue that it is callous and mean spirited to bring images to the attention of children without taking into account how they will interpret them.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 10:45 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

chai2 wrote:

When it comes down to it, what's the difference between easing off as far a with the kids, and the stopping of forcing some media circus down the throats of the public in general, for 2 weeks prior, and the week after?



to grow tired of and annoyed with some time being spent on a single day of the year to publically remember the people who died on 9/11.


Please compare.

In any event, this is not going to become a discussion with you finn. If you think I'm callous and mean spirited, that's fine with me, along with anything else you may choose to call me.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 10:53 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
If we have to reflect on every atrocity that occurred on "this day in history," we'll quickly reach apathy about it.

For example, the battle of Antietam happened on September 17, 1862.

(Edit: I misread the History.com page; I've updated the date.)

I don't see TV media shoving Civil War remembrances down our throats.

September 11, 2001 is important for folks who lived it and who watched it live on television, but it's not the most important event ever, which is how far too many people view it, IMO.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 10:57 am
@DrewDad,
Also on This Day

Lead Story
Key pens Star-Spangled Banner, 1814

American Revolution:
American sympathizer Charles James Fox dies in Britain, 1806

Automotive:
Oprah gives away nearly 300 new cars, 2004

Civil War:
Union troops discover Rebels' Antietam battle plan, 1862

Cold War:
New book says war with Russia is greatest U.S. threat, 1976

Crime:
Attica prison riot ends, 1971

Disaster:
Devastating storm heads toward Caribbean, 1989

General Interest:
Britain victorious on the Plains of Abraham, 1759
Massacre at Attica Prison, 1971
Israel-Palestine peace accord signed, 1993
George Wallace dies, 1998

Hollywood:
Law & Order debuts, 1990

Literary:
Children's author Roald Dahl is born, 1916

Music:
Tupac Shakur dies, 1996

Old West:
General Winfield Scott storms the Chapultepec fortress, 1847

Presidential:
President Carter attends Willie Nelson concert at White House, 1980

Sports:
Bob Feller strikes out 17 at 17, 1936

Vietnam War:
Attempted coup against Khanh government fails, 1964
Large operation begins in the DMZ, 1968

World War I:
Irish nationalist seeks German support, 1914

World War II:
Italy invades Egypt, 1940
British troops arrive to disarm the Japanese, 1945

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 11:15 am
@spendius,
It does relate the point chai has chosen to discuss with persons unknown.

Reread her post.
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 11:25 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
If you wish to continue misunderstanding the point Finn feel free to do so. The public could choose to engage with the coverage or not. The kids had no choice.

It came up in the pub on Sunday night. People had stopped watching the news that day because of the coverage. The kids had been rounded up by the kid-catcher, sat in desks and had it shoved on them.

That's the point.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 11:35 am
@DrewDad,
I can't tell you how you must feel about 9/11, but if you are somehow comparing it to atrocities like tupac shakur dying, I think I have an idea of how you think.

There has never been anything like 9/11 in our history. The closest event is Pearl Harbor and that attack was primarily targeted at our naval base, not civilians. 12/7 is still commemorated as Pearl Harbor Day, some 70 years after it occurred, and rembrance ceremonies are conducted every year.

What other atrocity, that Americans may wish to remember, is known simply by the date on which it occurred?

It has been only 10 years since it occurred and the memorial has just been completed and opened to the public. The Towers have yet to be replaced.

Teenagers who lost one or more of their parents on 9/11 are now parents themselves and have young children.

My friend's husband was a FD rescue worker who perished on 9/11 and left a wife and a 4 month old baby behind. She and her ten year old daughter were in NYC on Sunday.

If the argument was solely that the Media makes a spectacle of the event, I might be sympathetic, but it's not.

Instead it takes a number of other forms:

"What? Are Americans the only people in the world to have sustained a national tragedy?"

"People should be concentrating more on the many more thousands of people who have died in Afghanistan and Iraq...in fact they should feel shame!"

"Geez Louise, it's been ten years already, when are going to stop picking at the scab? It's getting boring as hell."

"9/11 has become Christmas Day for right-wingers!"

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 11:39 am
@spendius,
spendius

The point of this thread and the point of Chai's comments are two different things.

I don't need you to explain the point of the original thread, particularly since I expressed agreement with it.

0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 12:00 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

If we have to reflect on every atrocity that occurred on "this day in history," we'll quickly reach apathy about it.

For example, the battle of Antietam happened on September 17, 1862.

(Edit: I misread the History.com page; I've updated the date.)

I don't see TV media shoving Civil War remembrances down our throats.

September 11, 2001 is important for folks who lived it and who watched it live on television, but it's not the most important event ever, which is how far too many people view it, IMO.


So where were you when I was saying this on TTH's thread? I felt like the last of the Mohicans (And why don't we all gather together for a day of remorse for giving them blankets infected with small pox?)

We don't have the Civil War shoved down our throats because it wasn't televised as it happened, and no one was tweeting, or updating their facebook account on a regular basis. Today, no one is allowed to move on, because staying there sells too much airtime, magazines and clicks on your website.

People who are uncomfortable with the prospect of being called mean spirited know it's just easier to do what they're supposed to do, and say for the umpteenth time."Oh, how horrible, we must never forget." Does anyone think that if there wasn't a week of reflection that the information would fall out of our brains, and we would eventually (like after a long time, 2 years) all say "911? What's that, an area code?"

I'm not going to put my life on hold living in the past. Information was received that day, a way of thinking changed a way of acting in certain situations changed, and each day we each in our individual way adjusted their lives to work within that event.

All the people who died....you know, not all of them were nice people. Given the odds within a certain population, there were child abusers, spouse beaters, some just generally unpleasant people.

Now they're all wonderful people who are eternally missed by everyone they ever met.
heh....here's a thought, I'd say there is more than one person alive today that thinks their world is a better place because so and so is no longer in it.

I once had 7 words said to me that changed my life for the better.
I was at a doctors, getting a script refilled and after relating a number of things going on with me I suddenly remembered something "Oh! I forgot to mention that my mother died." I paused and said "I feel really weird about not feeling grief about that" she asked why. I said "well.....because people say your'e supposed to feel bad when a family member dies, even if you didn't get along"
She said "Yes, they do say that, don't they?"

But, it sure is easier to say you feel bad (or worse than you actually do), isn't it?
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 12:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Instead it takes a number of other forms:

"What? Are Americans the only people in the world to have sustained a national tragedy?"

"People should be concentrating more on the many more thousands of people who have died in Afghanistan and Iraq...in fact they should feel shame!"

"Geez Louise, it's been ten years already, when are going to stop picking at the scab? It's getting boring as hell."

"9/11 has become Christmas Day for right-wingers!"




Yes.....and.......?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 12:39 pm
@chai2,
And what?

I've already made it clear what I think about such sentiments and so there's no need to repeat myself.

shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 12:41 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

So, your school wasn't white enough to have a freedom day? Serves ya right . . .


i know. they are trying to hold miss wanna be black woman down!

ohh the humanity.. Laughing
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 12:49 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

So you're saying that only a certain type of people go for this sort of thing and others don't. And that the difference is related to class, race and income status.

That's interesting.


Yes.

As DD pointed out, austins city limits are about 20 miles from the dead center. It IS a physically small town ...TOO small for that to have been a coincidence .

One school is having a rush of information, conversation and dedication and yet another.. with a different race ratio is not. But what is curious is that the income level here is in the average levels. Homes are older... 70's maybe early 80s construction. No K-B cookie cutters, so the neighborhood is established, single families and a few retirees . In general , the crime is lower than the average in austin but nothing to brag about. there is nothing that makes this neighborhood any different then any others...EXCEPT... the race . I do not see as many black kids in other parts of austin as i do here. Unless I go east. Im wondering if those schools over there had the same thing..

Was the decision based only on race? Probably not as the dominant consideration no, but again.. this place is too small for such a radical difference to take place.

If it were being taught from a historical point of view, and presented as an informative piece of history, all schools would have the same basic outline. Whether it be a week of learning, or a chapter in their book or even an assembly , they would have to have something dedicated to instances like that for everyone.

I know..being in this school...that did not happen. Many conclusions can be drawn from that, but Im personally going to pick race as one of the dominant reasons.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:16 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
So where were you when I was saying this on TTH's thread?

Dunno... I don't recall having seen that thread. Do you have a link?
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
So, you don't feel a certain way. That's fine.

So what? Are you trying to convince anyone to think otherwise, or are you just bitching to hear yourself bitch?

Is this supposed to be a "right or wrong" thing?

If you've already made it clear, apparantly you've already been repeating yourself.

So, go have a memorial, invite everyone who expresses a desire to go. If they want to be a part of, word will spread. I don't think everyone has to listen to it.

It's no different than some Jesus people wanting everyone to be saved, like they think they are.

DD felt he needed to pull his kids out of school for the day. Good idea. But because of that, they were deprived of all else the school had to offer that day.
As a father, DD weighed the options, and decided what was right for his kids.

I rarely watch TV, don't listen much to the radio lately (audio books have my attention now) and don't subscribe to periodicals.
I made my choice to mostly not pay attention any 911 stuff came on. I was alive then, I remember, don't need to be reminded thank you. But even the little I heard made me realize if I was someone who can't pull themselves away from whatever is on the boob tube I'd either become indoctrinated, or have massive guilt about "not feeling like everyone else seems to"

Neither a good option.

Why does it bother you so that not everyone thinks the same as you?

I guess you must believe the worlds going to hell in a handbasket because we all didn't gather around and sing kumbaya and mourn in the subscribed method you thought we should.

I wonder how much money was spent on the preparation for all the memorial services.
Me, I belive it could have been better spent in multiple ways, or (gasp) not spent at all.

I think whoever wants to be part of such things should pay their share out of their own pocket, since they're the ones who want the party, and leave those who don't want to participate alone to do with want hey want.

Does anyone know the dollar amount spent? Sure it came from a lot of donations, big sponsors, but how much of it hit each of us?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:24 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
Why does it bother you so that not everyone thinks the same as you?

That's the Conservative mindset in a nutshell.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:30 pm
@spendius,
David wrote:
That helps no one.
spendius wrote:
I heard a prediction on CBS News that the memorial is set to attract 15,000,000 visitors a year.
That's going to help a lot of people.
Tourism??? Maybe. That 's good for the local economy.
It has not occurred to me to go to see Pearl Harbor.

I 'm not boycotting (no reason to do that),
but I don 't have it in my plans to go to visit the Memorial.
I remember it well enuf already.

In my mind, the events of 9/11/1 were not that much of a big deal.
( It did shake up my girlfriend at the time, Jane, who was way out
in Suffolk County on Long Island in her home, when it happened. )
Relative to the magnitude of the City, the damage was very little
and (from what I understand) we annually take as more casualties
from traffic accidents.

Obviously: it was an act of war, but
logically: I just don 't see a cause for so much emotion,
except among those who lost friends or relatives in the disaster itself.
I lost a friend: NYPD Lt. John Perry; he was in the act of retiring,
when the first plane hit. He 'd discussed his forthcoming retirement,
for a few years. He was a Mensan, a libertarian whom I met at
libertarian functions (e.g. the Junto meetings) and an active Republican.
He was a hero, in the act of rescuing people in the WTC,
when it collapsed on him.
I 've heard that a captain in the NYPD ordered him to stop doing that,
because of danger of instability, but John was insubordinate.


I almost lost another friend, Vivian, who is a member
of the O M SIG, my fine dining group, who was approaching
the WTC when the first plane hit, but who was not harmed.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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