Palestinian Solidarity Campaign disrupts Israeli Concert. Yeah!!!

izzythepush, you've shown in this thread that you are an anti-Semite. Prior to this, I'd thought of you as a not terribly swift person in the intellect department, that at least couldn't be helped. Your clear hatred of a group of people, is something which can be helped.

Israel, of course, rationalizes its behavior, by citing their own superior development, the often cruel retaliation of the Palestinians, and their supposed implaccable hostility. However these aren't far from the rationalizations of all previous oppressors, ranging from the British in Ireland to even, in many respects, the Nazis of Germany. The truth is that both oppressors were motivated more by greed and an exaggerated sense of their own worth - factors that appear to me to apply to Israel today.

That is the argument of the dilettante. Complaining about Tibet is something nice and safe to do, without any real consequences. China is a major part of the world economy, they can't be shut out just like that. Let's not forget how much money America owes China, or how much money is made (for western owners of copyright, eg. Mattel) by using cheap Chinese labour.

I assume you find Muslim states equally anachronistic in this modern world.

The problem with your prescription for Israeli peace is that it requires complete capitulation to an enemy that refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist and uses every concession Israel makes to further it's goal of destroying the Jewish State.

And what of people forced from their lands by conquest, commercial development both fine examples, Finn, of the various and numerous incursions the US has made into Central and South American countries and central government planning? same US affects upon those same already mentioned countries

What exactly do you mean by "anti Semite ? One who interprets your words literally would conclude you are in some sense opposed to the people of the Levant, including many Jews Lebanese and Palestinians and some Jordanians.

I recognize this somewhat pedantic approach may seem odd, but I hope it illustrates thae evident fact that the term "anti Semite" has become a nearly meaningless epithet in today's world that, in most cases is merely a perjorative term applied to those who oppose the policies of the state of Israel towards its neighbors and the people whose land, property, and in many cases, freedom it has forcibly taken in the name of preserving its security.

If there's a stick you can be guaranteed to pick up the wrong end of it.

Israel Hatred, on the other hand, is quite in vogue on the Left and so I'm not at all surprised to see him express it so clearly.

a left-wing trope

Well, you sure as hell don't know anything about the history of Ireland, do you?

The fact is that through neglect, indifference and systematic expropriation and ownership of the best land by absentee English landlords who farmed the most productive lands for cash crops sold in England, the British did manage to kill almost three million Irishmen through starvation in the mid nineteenth century. That caused the second great wave of emigration from Ireland(to the U.S. South America and Australia). There's lots more that could be written about the British oppression and exploitation of Ireland that continued for centurys.

I suppose there were lots of Irishmen who didn't want to "rub elbows" with Englishmen and lots of Englismen who felt the same about the Irish. However they got over it. When the Irish republic was created there was no retaliation against the still considerable resident English population, and many irish emigrated to England to find work.

I don't buy your arguments about the supposed permanent right of Jews to oppress others as an entitlement of the Holocaust. The history of the world is filled with oppression, slaughter and war. Were such a principle applied uniformly throughout the world we would all live in permanent isolation and conflict. Grotesque, horrible and recent as was the Holocaust, it does not confer the right of oppression of others, not guilty of these crimes, on the descendents of European Jews who themselves were not victims of them.

The sad truth is that Israel has itself become to a large degree a parody of the former oppressors of European Jews.

Setanta wrote:

Well, you sure as hell don't know anything about the history of Ireland, do you?

Not the history, just that Irish Catholics in the Republic of Ireland today enjoy a life that allows them to feel that their daily world is all Irish Catholic. A luxury, or a human right?

That's right, equate support for Palestine with anti-semitism, and throw in an insult at the same time. You really do know how to debate a topic.

I suppose prominant Jewish supporters of Palestinian self-determination like Gerald Kauffman, Alexi Sayle and Stephen Fry are also anti-semitic. Sorry, I know, they're self-hating Jews. You really are unable to discuss the treatment of the Palestinians aren't you? I guess that what comes of you being so clever 'n all.

You seem to have not caught the nuance of what I said regarding the hostility between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland or northern Ireland. There was never an intention by either side, nor during the "famine," to EXTERMINATE the other group. You keep ignoring that difference.

... Meaning that Jews should overcome their desire to be left alone to live their lives in a Jewish State, and become cosmopolitan. Sure, just like Europe learned to accept Jews over the last two millenia. Sorry Sir, you are not in the chain of command of Jews. They do not have to listen to, in my opinion, your double standard world view (whenever Gentiles choose not to live peaceably with Jews, we hear of pogroms/holocausts/rocket attacks, etc.; however, Jews need to overcome their reticence at living in a hostile Gentile world).

Foofie wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Well, you sure as hell don't know anything about the history of Ireland, do you?

Not the history, just that Irish Catholics in the Republic of Ireland today enjoy a life that allows them to feel that their daily world is all Irish Catholic. A luxury, or a human right?

Not really so. There is and long has been a Protestant minority in the Republic of Ireland and they are doing quite well - indeed they provided a large part of the leadership of the Irish resistance during the last two centuries. There was no retaliation against Protestants and resident Englismen when the republic gained its independence (though Churchill complained bitterly about Irish neutrality in WWII). St Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin is a Protestant church (Jonathan Swift is buried there). Intolerance is a disease that harms all involved, including those who practice it. Happily the Irish are relatively (tho not perfectly) free of it.

Catholics and Protestants are today living peacefully (if not joyfully) together in Northern Ireland, and as time passes the barriers between them, and the competing mythologies each held for the other, are breaking down.