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Terror in Norway: Shootout, bomb explosions kill 11

Forums: Extreme Right Wing, Terrorism, Senseless Shooting, Fundamentalists, Oslo
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:52 pm
@reasoning logic,
This has to be one of the most ignorant, narrow minded and idiotic comments I have ever seen posted on A2K, and the sad irony is that you believed you were being thoughtful when you wrote it.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:00 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Please go into detail because I do realize that I make mistakes and it takes others to point them out to me at times! Thanks
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
Easily.

He specifically targeted innocents who are in no way responsible for the evils he perceives. If he happened to get one or two of his "bad guys" it was by chance, not design.

What or who is he revolting against? Norwegian society; the Norwegian people?

A true revolutionary focuses upon those who he believes are responsible for the state that he is resisting.

Only a madman thinks the children of politicians are responsible for what he opposes or that by killing them he will put an end to the politics and practices he abhors.

He is clearly a madman and no silly relativity argument makes it otherwise.

If you insist on affording him some credence, than give him a name that is closer to the mark: Anarchist.

And all true anarchists are madmen.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:14 pm
@reasoning logic,
You know, I started to explain why your post was so ignorant, but then I realized it would take far more time than I'm willing to devote to responding to a fool who is going to, in any case, discount what I write because I am one of those poor broken souls who self-identifies as a conservative.

Try and figure it out yourself. If you can't even understand my argument than you are a bigger fool than I imagined. You don't have to accept it, but you should be able to defend your bigotry.

Do you really imagine that you represent "reasoning logic?"

Are you 12 years old?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

He specifically targeted innocents who are in no way responsible for the evils he perceives. If he happened to get one or two of his "bad guys" it was by chance, not design.

What or who is he revolting against? Norwegian society; the Norwegian people?

A true revolutionary focuses upon those who he believes are responsible for the state that he is resisting
That is simply false, this guy said directly that this is going to be a long struggle so why is it not reasonable and rational to focus ones energy on influencing the youth? I dont know how shooting up a youth camp is supposed to alter the course of the political struggle in his favor but I dont dismiss before even hearing it the argument that it will. Or maybe his goal is to put the EU on notice that the demands of the Right can no longer be ignored without consideration, it is a declaration that the cost of continuing to freeze out the Right is a burning down of the EU?? We have already heard that leadership did not consider the Right to be a threat, that this guy was not on the police radar and the groups in the Right have not been on the leaderships radar. They are now. How can you say that this act has not been a success?

Quote:
If you insist on affording him some credence, than give him a name that is closer to the mark: Anarchist
the snips of his manifesto that I have seen indicate not a anarchist, but rather one who was concerned about the direction that the collective is taking and who desires to change it.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
If you insist on affording him some credence, than give him a name that is closer to the mark: Anarchist.

And all true anarchists are madmen.



Are you saying that Noam Chomsky is a mad man?

0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I am one of those poor broken souls who self-identifies as a conservative.


I am conservative myself but what does my conservative thinking have to do with the way a conservative ideology is preached to the masses?


Quote:
Do you really imagine that you represent "reasoning logic?"

Are you 12 years old?


I will not engage in emotional conversations but if you would like to have one without them then you can count me in!
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
he snips of his manifesto that I have seen indicate not a anarchist, but rather one who was concerned about the direction that the collective is taking and who desires to change it.


So you think that this is how a concerned citizen behaves?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:37 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
So you think that this is how a concerned citizen behaves?
I think that there are many places in history where violence is required, and I believe that there are causes more important than individual life, so I dont reject before hearing it the arguement that this violence is justified. It is very rare for such acts of violence and vigilantism to be justified, but I will listen to the arguement before deciding. I have for a long time been concerned about the split between the people and the leadership of the EU, so the arguement for the need and justification for revolution does get a hearing from me.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
So you think that this is how a concerned citizen behaves?
I think that there are many places in history where violence is required, and I believe that there are causes more important than individual life, so I dont reject before hearing it the arguement that this violence is justified. It is very rare for such acts of violence and vigilantism to be justified, but I will listen to the arguement before deciding. I have for a long time been concerned about the split between the people and the leadership of the EU, so the arguement for the need and justification for revolution does get a hearing from me.


Do you think that Osman bin laden could have shared this same thought process when he brought down the twin towers?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:52 pm
@hawkeye10,

Quote:
The timeline omits when the carnage started....not cool.


I have heard he had one and a half hours before the police arrived.
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 03:00 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Do you believe that this madman should be labeled a Christian Terrorist, and if so why?

In the same vein, shouldn't fundamentalist Muslims who engage in terrorism be consider Ultra-right Terrorists? You know, Islamo-facists.



I'm not sure that these labels are helpful. In fact, I suspect the opposite.

The guy thinks of himself as a christian. He uses the symbol of the cross in his writing. He prays to the christian god. But it seems to me that not many practising christians would have him in the flock.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 03:02 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Quote:
The timeline omits when the carnage started....not cool.


I have heard he had one and a half hours before the police arrived.
I have as well, but this has not been nailed down. That means that it took 30 minutes for the police to get a report, which seems like a lot in the age of cell phones. However, my boy just got back from a week long student leadership camp yesterday and he said that the camp adults took away all of their phones upon arrival, so maybe....
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 03:04 pm

Just thinking today...what if he had killed 95 muslims? It could conceivably be done, with a bomb in a mosque.

Boy would the atmosphere be different. And widespread carnage would result.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 04:01 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
Just thinking today...what if he had killed 95 muslims?


For that matter, what if the shooter had been one of those 83 rape victims?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 04:10 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Just thinking today...what if he had killed 95 muslims?


For that matter, what if the shooter had been one of those 83 rape victims?



That is a rather interesting question! I wonder how many rape victims through out history have gone on such a killing spree. I can only guess that there have been more rape victims than what me and you could ever imagine!

Do you think that it could have anything to do with ideologies? I am not sure if rape victims have ever got together to form an ideology that is taught to the masses other than it is wrong for people to rape other people.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 04:19 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I can only guess that there have been more rape victims than what me and you could ever imagine!
Because men suck, right?

Quote:
That is a rather interesting question! I wonder how many rape victims through out history have gone on such a killing spree
I read the point to be that some political acting out is more acceptable to us than others...those who can claim with a straight face to be victims are allowed a lot more misbehavior than the rest of us are, double standards abound....justice takes a holiday.
reasoning logic
 
  3  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 04:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Because men suck, right?


Well technically some might but I am a heterosexual man and I have never had an interest in it!


Quote:
I read the point to be that some political acting out is more acceptable to us than others


If some one has a logical reason that he/she wishes to share with society then I think that attention should be given to him/her and it should be discussed within the people.
The sad thing is that we may not always get society to agree with us on all issues but it goes that way for all of us so it seems best if we just forgive the masses if they do not see it our way.
Sometimes you will get your way and a large minority will just have to accept what has happened to them, this is what it is to be civilized!

This is my opinion and I am always open to new ways of thinking!
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 04:56 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
That is a rather interesting question! I wonder how many rape victims through out history have gone on such a killing spree. I can only guess that there have been more rape victims than what me and you could ever imagine!

Do you think that it could have anything to do with ideologies? I am not sure if rape victims have ever got together to form an ideology that is taught to the masses other than it is wrong for people to rape other people.


Since you seem to have missed it, of the 86 forcible rapes in Norway over the last year, of the 83 they solved, ALL 83 involved muslim immigrants who were in Norway due mainly to "multicultural(TM)" programs espoused by the ruling liberal party. That's before you even get to other flavors of crime and what extent the common people of Norway experience them versus the extent to which members of the liberal party do, or how the Norwegian people might view that question.

Is this still just Christians acting badly, or could it actually be that there is some natural limit to how long a nation's ruler(s) can act deaf without consequences? Could it be that Marie Antoinette wasn't just a fluke of some sort?

I mean for sure this is not the way I'd have tried to get the fuckers' attention, but it does in fact appear to have gotten their attention...
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 05:00 pm
@gungasnake,
Somehow Im reading a :"defense" of this guys actions in Gungas posts. Am I missing something?
 

 
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