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Terror in Norway: Shootout, bomb explosions kill 11

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 10:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
For the last three years I have been working full time on a cultural conservative work which will help to develop and market these political ideas."


For the most part it seems that change is very frightening when you are a conservative.

It appears that conservative are likely to have absolutest thinking which does not allow for much forward progress. I do not blame them because this is how their minds work!


Videos like this may hurt your feelings if you are a republican conservative!



Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 10:48 am
From the Oslo's police press conference this evening (15:30 GMT):
• the accused had a substantial amount of ammunition left when he was arrested,
• Police said it was an undercover police man on the AUF-camp when the shooting took place. The person served as a hired guard at Utøya, but was not there on behalf of police, but during his off-duty time,
Police has not questioned the officer, and will not give more details at this time.
• Police knows nothing about his motifs, but the accused has acknowledged the facts.


LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 11:38 am
Quote:
A heroic couple saves dozens of campers

Hege Dalen and her partner Toril Hansen were having a dinner in a camping area opposite to the Utöya when they started hearing shots and screams from the island.

"A scent of gunpowder came over from the island. Then terrible screaming. We saw how the panicked young people ran into the lake", Dalen says to HS.

The couple got into action and pushed their boat into Lake Tyrifjorden.

Many others near the island did the same thing.

Dalen and Hansen drove their boat to the island, picked shocked and wounded youngsters from the water and took them to mainland. At times bullets were hitting the water right next to the boat.

Since not everyone could get into the boat at once, they returned four times to the front of the island.

They may have saved 40 youngsters from the killer.

"We didn't sleep last night at all. Today we have been together and discussed the events", Dalen says.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 12:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

• Police said it was an undercover police man on the AUF-camp when the shooting took place. The person served as a hired guard at Utøya, but was not there on behalf of police, but during his off-duty time,
Police has not questioned the officer, and will not give more details at this time.


That policeman is among the 86 killed, though it isn't confirmed officially
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 12:46 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
That policeman is among the 86 killed, though it isn't confirmed officially
I'll bet that he was unarmed.....

This perp spent years working on his plan, and did it well judging from the results, he would not have overlooked that detail.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 12:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I'll bet that he was unarmed.....


Of course. He wasn't on duty.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 12:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
That policeman is among the 86 killed, though it isn't confirmed officially
I'll bet that he was unarmed.....

This perp spent years working on his plan, and did it well judging from the results, he would not have overlooked that detail.


I think you are correct in your assessment but I do have a question for you though!

I think that you are a very smart person and if you were him and wanted to kill more people you could have killed at least 10 to 100 times what he did if that was your goal correct?

I will not share with you how that would be done because I do not want others to know that type of info.

What I am trying to get at is that we need to find a way for all of us to be as one group or we will end up destroying ourselves in the end!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 12:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
I'll bet that he was unarmed.....


Of course. He wasn't on duty.


If I am not mistaken many Norwegian police are unarmed!
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 12:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Of course. He wasn't on duty.
There is no "of course" about it...in American off duty cops very often stay armed. It is allowed in most if not all jurisdictions, and in fact while the trend is going a bit away from this historically of duty cops in America have been REQUIRED to be armed at all times, off duty as well as on duty.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40531693/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/should-off-duty-cops-carry-guns-bars-city-weighs/
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:05 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I think that you are a very smart person and if you were him and wanted to kill more people you could have killed at least 10 to 100 times what he did if that was your goal correct?
I have noticed both that he had plenty of time to kill more, and that he had plenty of ammo remaining. I am very interested to see the explanation for why he did not kill more. Did he get bored? Did he think he had killed enough to get his point across so he stopped? Did he start to dislike his mission so he stopped? Was he too lazy to go look for more people to shoot?

Thing is that his bomb was not very effectively placed for killing people either, this makes me suspect that we might be dealing with a terrorist who does not want max kill rates, only max political message, and that he did well.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Thing is that his bomb was not very effectively placed for killing people either, so it make me think we might be dealing with a terrorist who does not want max kill rates, only max political message, and that he did well.



Maybe you are correct but I doubt it!

I think he made some mistakes, Well at least that is what he may be thinking to himself. He may be thinking to himself, " What happen to my bomb I thought that it would have done the most damage!
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:19 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
What happen to my bomb I thought that it would have done the most damage!
It did a lot of structural damage, but killed few. Given his long dedication to the project combined with his obvious intelligence I have to assume that the low kill rate was by design.

However, I await confirmation from the perp.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:21 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I'll bet that he was unarmed.....
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Of course. He wasn't on duty.
In NY, police are expected to be armed at all times.
It used to be the rule that thay were REQUIRED
to be armed off duty by law or by rule.
I believe that has changed, but that thay are usually armed.

In the newspapers, there is frequent reference
to off duty police doing things that involve use of their guns.

I believe that is true thru out almost all (maybe all) of America.
In fact (if I remember accurately) in recent years, Congress has enacted a statute
that police of any State can legally carry their guns in any other State.





David
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I have to assume that the low kill rate was by design.


Would you design something like this if you are going to be shooting at hundreds of kids that you do not even know? I can imagine that someone can do this but why would they have any concern for other life?
How can you make a logical point for them not wanting to harm too many people?

Is there logic involved in what he did or could this been an emotional out burst?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
There is no "of course" about it...in American off duty cops very often stay armed.


We are talking here about Norway, which you perhaps forgot.

The Norwegian Firearms Act doesn't regulate weapons of the forces and the police (Lov om skytevåpen og ammunisjon m.v. [våpenloven]., Kapittel I. § 4), but I'm rather sure that the police handles its weapons like elsewhere: stored in police station's armoury.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:


In February of this year, Janne Kristiansen, the head of Norway's state police intelligence unit PST (Politiets sikkerhetstjeneste), warned that neo-nazism and right wing extremism were on the rise in Norway, and that these people were ready to be violent.



And not that long ago here in the US Sec. Napolitano warned that soliders returning from Iraq and Afghanistan were ready to be violent.

Whatever the state of the ultra-right in Norway may be, from what I've seen and heard, "those people" didn't commit these heinous crimes, one lunatic, with ties to them, did.

Just as Timothy McVeigh didn't signal the arrival of an organized and ongoing terrorist threat from right-wing extremists, it's more than possible that the same can be said of this Norwegian madmen. We'll see of course.

As desperate as so many are to equate the threat of ultra right-wing terrorism with that of Islamist terrorism, it just doesn't wash.

On the basis of frequency alone, there is no comparison.

On the basis of geographic scope there is no comparison. Islamist attacks are happening throughout the world, while extreme right-wing attacks are occurring only in the nations in which their lunatic perpetrators live.

I've seen no evidence of any ultra-right terrorist attack being supported by a organized group ( this one could of course be the exception), and there is zero evidence that any of these attacks have been supported by like minded individuals or groups in other countries.

Not so with Islamist terrorist attacks.

These were horrendous acts of violence by an evil man,and should unequivocally be condemned, but it is wishful thinking of ideologues that they signal that the world has as much to fear from ultra-right madmen as it does from a highly organized terrorist network predicated upon a corruption of one of the world's great religions.

Anyone who believes the crimes of Islamist terrorists condemn all Muslims is a bigoted fool, just as anyone who believes the crimes of ultra-right terrorists condemn everyone on the right.

And yet, it seems to me that while we can all probably agree that the folks who equate Islamist terrorism with the orthodox practices
of Islam are ignorant fools, I'm pretty sure I will get quite a lot of push back when I assert the same can be said of those who link ultra-right terrorism to orthodox right wing beliefs.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:40 pm
Quote:
The suspect in Norway’s recent bombing and shooting attacks has acknowledged to police that he carried them out, but he insists he is not criminally responsible, his lawyer said late Saturday night.
.
.
.
Breivik argued that he was forced to act to help save Europe from multiculturalism.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/norway-attacks-police-say-suspect-used-car-bomb-two-guns-killing-at-least-92/2011/07/23/gIQAVYeOVI_story.html?hpid=z2

So I am correct....again.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:44 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Is there logic involved in what he did or could this been an emotional out burst?
I am not sure of the logic, this guy claims that in his logic this act of terror promotes his political goals, but I have not seen the dots connected, so dont know how he gets from here to there.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:47 pm
@McTag,
Do you believe that this madman should be labeled a Christian Terrorist, and if so why?

In the same vein, shouldn't fundamentalist Muslims who engage in terrorism be consider Ultra-right Terrorists? You know, Islamo-facists.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:48 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Do you believe that this madman should be labeled a Christian Terrorist, and if so why?
He claims that he is not mad, that he is a revolutionary....can you prove him wrong?
 

 
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