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Terror in Norway: Shootout, bomb explosions kill 11

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 05:09 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Somehow Im reading a :"defense" of this guys actions in Gungas posts. Am I missing something?
The UniBomber was right about some things as well, but it takes more than being right and being the victim of political oppression to justify the killing of civilians, a point that I am sure Gunga will agree with. The Europeans go on about this guy being their McVeigh , but I think he is actaully much more their UniBomber.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 05:13 pm
@farmerman,
I am getting the same reading from gungasnake and Hawkeye! Do you think they share the same ideology?
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 05:22 pm
@farmerman,
No way I'd defend or recommend what this guy did, but it should have been predictable. The political situation in several European countries is basically untenable.
LionTamerX
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 05:24 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Somehow Im reading a :"defense" of this guys actions in Gungas posts. Am I missing something?


You could broaden that assessment to include Hawk, but you're not really missing anything to speak of.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 05:30 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

I am getting the same reading from gungasnake and Hawkeye! Do you think they share the same ideology?
I am a radical Libetarian socialist, I very often share views with the radical libertarian righties because we both agree on the nature of some of our fundimental current problems and the solutions to them. Were we split ways is when we start talking about what individuals would do with our freedom if we should win it back. I say that we will come together in collective effort to make a better life for ourselves and our kids, the right says individuals will pursue individual and familial self interests operating fully as individuals. We disagree about what the human nature is once it is free from state coercion, but we agree that the state coercion must be ended, and that force is likely to be required to accomplish this.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 05:37 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

No way I'd defend or recommend what this guy did, but it should have been predictable. The political situation in several European countries is basically untenable.
The political system all across the EU is broken to include the UK as we see in the Murdoch affair. Not that americans can gloat, because we are in no better shape. There has been a sustained effort on the part of the global corporate class to weaken governments allegiance to the people which has been extremely successful, but what the corporate class seems to have forgotten is that we the people always retain the ability to seperate heads from bodies, and sometimes use this method to put down oppressors.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 06:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we the people always retain the ability to seperate heads from bodies, and sometimes use this method to put down oppressors.


Would you please elaborate?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 06:29 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
we the people always retain the ability to seperate heads from bodies, and sometimes use this method to put down oppressors.


Would you please elaborate?
What part confuses you?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 06:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

farmerman wrote:

Somehow Im reading a :"defense" of this guys actions in Gungas posts. Am I missing something?
The UniBomber was right about some things as well, but it takes more than being right and being the victim of political oppression to justify the killing of civilians, a point that I am sure Gunga will agree with. The Europeans go on about this guy being their McVeigh , but I think he is actaully much more their UniBomber.
I swear I did not see the following before I wrote this post.

Quote:
DENVER (AP) — Parts of the manifesto written by the suspect in Norway's terrorist attacks were taken almost word for word from the writings of "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski.
The passages copied by Anders Behring Breivik appear in the first few pages of Kaczynski's manifesto. Breivik changed a Kaczynski screed on leftism and what he considered to be leftists' "feelings of inferiority" — mainly by substituting the words "multiculturalism" or "cultural Marxism" for "leftism."
For instance, Kaczynski wrote: "One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism, so a discussion of the psychology of leftism can serve as an introduction to the discussion of the problems of modern society in general."
Breivik's manifesto reads: "One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is multiculturalism, so a discussion of the psychology of multiculturalists can serve as an introduction to the discussion of the problems of Western Europe in general."
Breivik did not cite Kaczynski, though he did so for many other people whose writings he used in his 1,500-page manifesto.
He used at least one portion verbatim: "Feminists are desperately anxious to prove that women are as strong and capable as men. Clearly they are nagged by a fear that women may NOT be as strong and as capable as men."

http://news.yahoo.com/norway-suspect-borrowed-unabombers-manifesto-200617817.html
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 06:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Sadly all of it but that does not mean that you did not explain yourself well but rather I just have never heard the terminology before! I am a bit slow witted about some things! Smile
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 07:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Sadly all of it but that does not mean that you did not explain yourself well but rather I just have never heard the terminology before! I am a bit slow witted about some things! Smile
So I dont get a clue?

It means that when the oppressors are in the minority and the oppressed are in the majority the oppressed always have the ability to end the oppression. Numbers always win when the situation is forced, when the oppressed decide to rise up and throw off their chains they will be successful. Oppressors have a habit of forgetting this, they think that because the right methods and having the right friends has always worked that it will always work.

Democracies on both sides of the pond have taken to blowing off the desires of the majority, we in American see the state firmly aligned with the corporate class as well as radical social activists such as the feminists, with out regard for what the majority wants, without regard to any limits that the Constitution places on the mandate of Government. In Europe we see the big government pro EU minority jamming the EU scheme down the throats of the rest of the people, removing power from the people and placing it with far away bureaucrats and courts.

But the people only stand for this for as long as we decide to stand for this, numbers always win. Our founders understood this when they protected the rights of the citizen militia, for a little revolution now and then is a good thing, sometimes the government needs to be reminded of who the boss is. At the end of the day if the oppressors do not stand down then they need to be deprived of their lives, sometimes we chose to do this by relieving them of their heads, not the idea solution for sure but it will work every time. 340,000 were put to death during the French Revolution, 40,000 by way of the guillotine.


We will do it again if need be.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 09:27 pm
@LionTamerX,
LionTamerX wrote:

Quote:
In the safest, most boring country, the worst lone gunman shooting happens. The worst in the world, in history. But it will not make our country worse. The safe, boring democracy will supply him with a defense lawyer as is his right. He will not get more than 21 years in prison as is the maximum extent of the law. Our democracy does not allow for enough punishment to satisfy my need for revenge, as is its intention. We will not become worse, we will be better. We lived in a land where this is possible, even easy. And we will keep living in a land where this is possible, even easy. We are open, we are free and we are together. We are vulnerable by choice. And we will keep on like that, that's how we want to live. We will not be worse because of the worst. We must be good because of the best.


I found this on another site this morning. The quote is from a young Norwegian basically paraphrasing what Prime Minister Stoltelnberg said regarding the attacks. I wanted to spread this, because I think this is the sort of message that is most needed right now.


Ditto.
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2011 04:21 am
@Eorl,

Nice one, Eorl, thanks.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2011 07:40 am
@Eorl,
Quote:
We are vulnerable by choice. And we will keep on like that, that's how we want to live. We will not be worse because of the worst. We must be good because of the best....


Sounds good out of context, but...

Did the guy have anything to say to or about those 83 rape victims?

LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2011 08:09 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Did the guy have anything to say to or about those 83 rape victims?

Those supposed rapes are the fictional creation of another white supremacist loony called fjordman from 2005.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2011 08:48 am
@LionTamerX,
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&biw=1034&bih=751&source=hp&q=86+rapes+norway+muslim+immigrants&pbx=1&oq=86+rapes+norway+muslim+immigrants&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3196l10588l0l10831l33l31l0l0l0l0l243l4916l3.20.8l31&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=4314f23e9084643a
LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2011 09:40 am
@gungasnake,
Do you have any links from actual news agencies ? All of those links you provided were from web forums, or bogus pseudo-news sources.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2011 09:56 am
@gungasnake,
What I find totally intersting is
• police sources are quoted. Norwegian police doesn't differ any criminal investigation related to religious beliefs,
• "non-western appearance" is said to be in Norway "a laundered euphemism for Muslim immigrants from Africa, the Middle East, or Asia". Besides the left-out answer to the question, how non-Muslim immigrants from these countries are called in Norwegian, besides that, it isn't true.
Statistics are done by citizenship.

The number of rapes is ... well, I don't know where it's taken from.

The official police statistics give here a number of 3746 "investigated sex crimes" ....

Source for above:Statistisk sentralbyrå ('Statistic Norway'
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2011 10:27 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

[The political system all across the EU is broken to include the UK as we see in the Murdoch affair.


It's a lot healthier than yours, Cheney, Iraq, Halliburton.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2011 10:42 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

[The political system all across the EU is broken to include the UK as we see in the Murdoch affair.


It's a lot healthier than yours, Cheney, Iraq, Halliburton.


Besides that, there's no reason exclude the UK when he writes "all across the EU" - the UK is an EU-member since 1973.
 

 
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