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Terror in Norway: Shootout, bomb explosions kill 11

Forums: Extreme Right Wing, Terrorism, Senseless Shooting, Fundamentalists, Oslo
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Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 04:14 pm
@reasoning logic,
Interesting that the shooter was a fundamentalist christian.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 04:20 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Do you think that the shooter was oppressed or suppressed by the people in his country? He may have felt that way because things were not going the way he thought that they should have.
I think that the political leaders have long driven a leftist Multicultural agenda with out regard for what the people think, which is part of a long running problem in Europe where when the leaders find out that the people don't agree with them they decide that the problem is not their agenda but rather is that the people are ignorant and so the leadership goes on their marry way expecting that in time the people will decide that leadership was right and thus forgive leadership for the violation. I very much think that Europe is oppressive now, is a poorly functioning democracy. America is as well, but at least here we have a good number of people who are ready to run the elites though the blade if need be, we are much closer to a solution to our dysfunctional democracy. We well might have a lot of carnage before we get there though, because this is going to be a fight to the death. Either the Reds or the Blues are going to win, the other side is going to die. Right now the Reds have the upper hand.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 04:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Either the Reds or the Blues are going to win, the other side is going to die. Right now the Reds have the upper hand.



Not trying to be mean but isn't this how apes do it? What is wrong with the scientific method?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 04:45 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Not trying to be mean but isn't this how apes do it? What is wrong with the scientific method?
Asked and answered...Humans are both rational and irrational, to expect humans to live fully within a rational scientific frame work is oppressive in inhumane. You will forever be too ignorant of humans to speak on human relationship issues until and unless you get out of your rational fantasyland and learn the irrational side of human nature, which includes learning about how power works in human relationship. Wars and fights to the death are not rational, but they are required in humanity. Whining about it is fine though dumb, expecting this to change is dumb, and trying to force the change is both oppressive and dumb.

Remember the movie "Logan's run" and the Star Trek episode "A Taste of Armageddon"?? ......pure logic can be evil, stop pitching your tent under it and then your views will be much more worthy of consideration.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 04:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Wars and fights to the death are not rational, but they are required in humanity. Whining about it is fine though dumb, expecting this to change is dumb, and trying to force the change is both oppressive and dumb.


Let me guess if God wanted us to fly he would have given us feathers on our bodies rather than the scientific method to do so.

Do you think that if we stopped fighting and started helping each other out that everyone on earth could have a new home and much more, like their loved ones still alive.
What kind of fool would take a chance on losing one of their love ones other than a very uneducated person, one that has been indoctrinated or a psychopath that does the indoctrinating?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 05:12 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
What kind of fool would take a chance on losing one of their love ones other than a very uneducated person, one that has been indoctrinated or a psychopath that does the indoctrinating?
So your argument is that only the fool would have the will to fight, or support those who fight....what percentage of the human race that has ever existed would you guess has been militantly pacifistic? I dont see much of this position in history, nor did I find much of this position in America after 9/11....what is it then, maybe a couple of percent of the population? Everyone else is a fool then in your books? No, you dont understand humans, that is the basic problem.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 05:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Remember the movie "Logan's run" and the Star Trek episode "A Taste of Armageddon"?? ......
pure logic can be evil, [????] stop pitching your tent under it
and then your views will be much more worthy of consideration.
NONSENSE, Hawkeye!!!
Pure logic is sound reasoning. That cannot be "evil" as u put it.

What does that have to do with Logan's Run ???





David
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 05:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
No, you dont understand humans, that is the basic problem.


Maybe you are correct and I do not understand humans but it is what I study!
Human behavior, that is why I say that we are the fifth ape and we are evolving.
If I understand you correctly you are very pissed that this is happening in the ethical sense.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 05:21 pm
@reasoning logic,

Quote:
No, you dont understand humans, that is the basic problem.
reasoning logic wrote:
Maybe you are correct and I do not understand humans but it is what I study!
Human behavior, that is why I say that we are the fifth ape and we are evolving.
If I understand you correctly you are very pissed that this is happening in the ethical sense.
What r the other 4 apes ?
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 05:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
stop pitching your tent under it and then your views will be much more worthy of consideration.


Do you recommend that your family pitch their tent under the tree of irrationality?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 05:28 pm
Quote:
Terror in Norway: Shootout, bomb explosions kill 11
It was not a shootout, because no one was shooting back.

I bet that the victims ( kids ) wished that thay had competent firepower to counterattack the murderer.





David
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 05:29 pm
@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:
What r the other 4 apes ?



I am no expert but from what I understand they are
chimpanzees (genus Pan)
gorillas (genus Gorilla)
orangutans (genus Pongo)
gibbons (family Hylobatidae)
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 07:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I think that the political leaders have long driven a leftist Multicultural agenda with out regard for what the people think, which is part of a long running problem in Europe where when the leaders find out that the people don't agree with them they decide that the problem is not their agenda but rather is that the people are ignorant and so the leadership goes on their marry way expecting that in time the people will decide that leadership was right and thus forgive leadership for the violation.


That's the basic gist of a lot of it. I'd want two weeks or so before making any sort of a case for a possible motive on this one but guessing isn't that hard.

What I see in this one is similar to what goes on in Ireland which has been the one case in the world in which Christianity has been associated with terrorism over the last two centuries. A number of European countries have reached a point at which the people feel they have been sold out by their ruling classes and the situation is similar to that in which the Scotch Irish were planted in Ireland by the British.

Two recent items in the news:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145161

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/06/29/muslim-rape-feminist-silence-1/

Quote:
Defenders of Islam call it a "religion of peace" but many Norwegian women are learning that Islam is the religion of rape. According to an amazing police report released there this month, every single solved case of assault-rape in the country in 2010 was carried out by a Muslim immigrant....

...According to the police report there was a total of 186 of known rape cases in 2010. These fall into various categories, the largest one of which is assault-rape, carried out by sheer physical force, of which there were 86 cases. In 83 of these cases the perpetrator could be identified by the victim. In all 83, the attacker was described as having "non-western appearance," a laundered euphemism for Muslim immigrants from Africa, the Middle East, or Asia....


Again Al Wilson's warning about taking in people for whom gratitude is not any sort of a primary virtue or character trait:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZrxDWzl5PA

It's possible that the shooter(s) in this case may have viewed the youth labor party gathering as an opportunity to teach the ruling elites who he/they viewed as responsible for the muslim influx a lesson or some sort.

0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 09:53 pm
Norwegian authorities now claiming they are not ruling out the possibility of more than one shooter.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:04 am
@gungasnake,
According to what his defence lawyer says (and what he wrote in his own 'manifesto'), he did all alone.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

According to what his defence lawyer says (and what he wrote in his own 'manifesto'), he did all alone.
The report I saw had it that it took 40 minutes for cops to arrive...where is David? He should be telling us that most of this would have been avoided if only the victims were armed..
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 01:59 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
The report I saw had it that it took 40 minutes for cops to arrive...


At about 17:27, the first shots are fired at Utøya.

Approximately two minutes later the operations center in northern Buskerud received the first messages about.

At 17:38, police in Northern Buskerud sent a request to the Oslo police for assistance from the police's counterterrorism unit, "Delta",
At 17:52, the first patrols from North Buskerud arrived (at the mainland, opposite to Utøya),
At 18:03, a boat was requisitioned,
At 18:09, the Emergency Squad from Oslo arrived there,
At 18:25, the Emergency Squad and police from North Buskerud went ashore on Utøya,
At 18:27, Anders Behring Breivik was arrested.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 02:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The official timeline, as updated this morning [published at 08:23, updated at 08:45 GM, via NRK]
Quote:
Ifølge Hammer fulgte politiaksjonen på Utøya følgende tidslinje.

• 17.27: Melding om skyting på Utøya til Nordre Buskerud politidistrikt.
• 17.30: Operasjonssentralen i Oslo politidistrikt mottok melding om skyting på Utøya
• 17.38: Oslo politidistrikt mottar bistandsanmodning fra Nordre Buskerud politidistrikt
• 17.52: Første politipatrulje ankommer området - må vente på egnet båt
• 18.03: Melding om at båt var på vei
• 18.09: Beredskapstroppen til stede på fastlandet
• 18.25: Beredskapstroppen gikk i land på Utøya
• 18.27: Gjerningsmannen pågripes.

17:27: Notification of shooting at Utøya to Northern Buskerud Police District.
17:30: Operations Centre in Oslo police receive notification of the shooting on Utøya
17:38: Oslo police receiving aid request from Nordre Buskerud Police District
17:52: The first police patrol arrives in the area - must wait for a suitable boat
18:03: Notification that the boat was on its way
18:09: Emergency Squad present on the mainland
18:25: Emergency squad land on Utøya
18:27: The offender is arrested.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 03:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The timeline omits when the carnage started....not cool.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2011 10:07 am
From Andy Brown's Anders Breivik is not Christian but anti-Islam:
Quote:
[...]
Two huge conspiracy theories form the gearboxes of his writing. The first is that Islam threatens the survival of Europe through what he calls "demographic Jihad". Through a combination of uncontrolled immigration and uncontrolled breeding, the Muslims, who cannot live at peace with their neighbours, are conquering Europe.

But these ideas, however crazy, are part of a widespread paranoid ideology that links the European and American far right and even elements of mainstream conservatism in Britain.
[...]
The second is the idea that the elite have sold out to "Marxism", which controls the universities, the mainstream media, and almost all the political parties, and is bent on the destruction of western civilisation.
[...]
These two grand conspiracies are linked by the "Eurabia" conspiracy theory, which holds that EU bureaucrats have struck a secret deal to hand over Europe to Islam in exchange for oil.

Such extreme ideas are distributed among far-right blogs across Europe and America. ... ... ...
[...]
Obviously these people can't be held responsible for the use to which their ideas were put. No matter how deranged a killer's ideas, he still needs a deranged personality to put them into action. But anyone tempted to take them seriously should consider what were almost Breivik's last words on Document.no:

"For the last three years I have been working full time on a cultural conservative work which will help to develop and market these political ideas."

That "cultural conservative work" was the PDF he mailed out as he set off on his murder spree.

 

 
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