I need some good solutions

@ossobuco,

It doesn't matter if the day off is paid or not, I just want the time off.

Period.

Maybe I do want more than they bargained for - I don't know because it wasn't discussed. But I don't think one day a month for four months is excessive, given that my last job, full time, I had 11 weeks' paid vacation for six years and in this job, I'm not asking for these paltry few days to be paid time off..

Also, the time off in April, isn't even time off - the office will be disbanded. And as for the time going to Spain in March, well, I can put that off to a later date. That's not set in concrete - it's just what we've talked about. EDit: not to mention the fact that when I started, Dec, 31 was the last day the office would be there, so I booked my 2012 holidays based on that.

My point is that you can't tell someone AFTER the fact that A) they don't get vacation days, and that B) these certain days (Mon or Fri) are not negotiable. Why not say that up front? I would have declined the job on those terms.

Point taken.

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@Mame,

I think you misread the contract. I know I'm older and fogier, but I would have asked. Whether or not they pay you isn't the key part, it is whether you with your talents can cover the work that they were hiring for. The medical part is important to the docs, I presume. Again, not that I know what you do.
You are looking to have the anxious one replace you? Or they contract for a temp?

Sorry to switch sides, but I think you are naive on all this.

I've worked in medicine from a lame-o minifilfm xray tech at sixteen, in 1957, to cashiers, to admitting, to reservations, while working as a medical assistant at the same time, to lab trainee after degree, all the while, to lab trainee after hired, to the person who ran a lab, and so on.

The docs will like their place covered.
I'm not clear re your work, but you are sounding spritely.

Again, not knowing, if the docs are ok with a temp all these times, there you go.

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@Mame,

Mame, I think we're looking at it from a different angle in the United States.
11 weeks paid vacation is practically unheard of here. A lot of companies won't give any vacation for the first year, and thereafter it's 10 days paid and maybe 5 days paid sick leave. It's mostly up to the corporations to determine your vacation/sick leave, but if you work only part time then all bets are off. Whatever their company policy is, has to be honored.

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Sorry, Mame, but one day gone out of every month when you only work three days a week sounds excessive to me, too. That's one out of every 13 days. I don't know anyone here who could get away with that unless they had serious medical problems.

I understand about the 2012 travel, though. After all, if you were told the job would only last through December 31, you should be free to make whatever plans you like after Jan. 1, and they should consider themselves lucky if you can stay on longer.

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@CalamityJane,

So that is similar to what I remember.

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@Mame,

I can see both sides. I am assuming it may be difficult to hire so one willing to work the 3 day stint and Mame does a good job at it. Mame, again assuming, really doesn't need to work and her time off is important. The job didn't stipulate if/when vacation is appropriate.

This time off is important to Mame to the extent she is willing to leave the job for it. So if they really want to keep her, they should accomodate it - small price to pay. But if they really need some one there on Fridays, she would lose her job. Not an issue as Mame says that is the other option.

I think she is just asking us the best way and suggestions on how she could accomodate her place of employment and still have the time off. It appears she realizes it could result in her losing the job.

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@Mame,

I don't think so either, and I work in the US. I've had people request every Friday off for 2 months in a row (summer) - although if the day you wanted off was a high demand day work wise it could pose a problem.

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I think mame make a mistake in using words like 'holiday' and 'vacation'. How different it all would have sounded if she just said she wanted a day off.

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@ossobuco,

Quote:

I think your employers assumed holidays were not a part of the contract, and you signed it. I'm not sure where you get that holidays are somehow owed the day you start.

(yet another lesson on having an attorney go over your contracts. We had to do that in my last firm, not re employees, as we didn't have any ...

A question, not aimed at osso in particular.

I'm a little confused. Can an employer in the US (or Canada, in Mame's case) decide, as a condition of a worker's employment, whether the worker is entitled to holidays, etc ...?

Are there no industrial awards (or whatever you'd call them in the US) which oblige employers to grant certain public holidays & other benefits to their employees, whether they're on contact or not?
There certainly are where I live.

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@msolga,

Thank you, Linkat, msolga - first of all, we are all entitled to vacation or vacation pay, it's really up to the employee to decide which.

Secondly, my issue was not whether I was entitled to the day off, of course I am - it's whether I could not take that Friday off because "it infringed on the office manager". THAT is what I was saying is not my problem. If their policy is to not replace a person, that places the other person in a NOT GOOD situation, whomever it might be (her or me). And that shouldn't prohibit me OR HER from taking a day off.

I think some people are thinking I don't DESERVE a day off because I don't work a full work week; that isn't the issue because I'm willing to take it without pay. The issue was whether HER problems become mine. And ultimately, it's the company's problem because things don't get done without a replacement.

Sorry I even raised this issue. Blah. By the way, so far, I've taken the time off without pay, and I'm happy to continue doing so. I just wanted the time off to be with family.

1 Reply

@Mame,

Thanks, Mame.
That explains the situation in Canada, or as it applies to your employment, anyway.
I'm sorry to have revived the thread when it sounds like you'd have preferred to just let it be.
I'm still rather curious about the US.
I may be completely wrong, but I've gained the impression that US employers have a lot more say about the conditions of work of their employees than they do in say, my own country, due to industrial awards.
Mind you, employment conditions have been under constant attack & eroded (from employees perspectives) in recent years.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

A question, not aimed at osso in particular.

I'm a little confused. Can an employer in the US (or Canada, in Mame's case) decide, as a condition of a worker's employment, whether the worker is entitled to holidays, etc ...?

Are there no industrial awards (or whatever you'd call them in the US) which oblige employers to grant certain public holidays & other benefits to their employees, whether they're on contact or not?
There certainly are where I live.

No, MsOlga, employees are not automatically entitled to paid time off.

Quote:

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) does not require payment for time not worked, such as vacations or holidays (federal or otherwise). These benefits are generally a matter of agreement between an employer and an employee (or the employee's representative).

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/holiday.htm

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

Quote:

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) does not require payment for time not worked, such as vacations or holidays (federal or otherwise). These benefits are generally a matter of agreement between an employer and an employee (or the employee's representative).

Thank you, Jane.
So, apart from government employees, most workers would have to negotiate their individual conditions of work via contracts with their employers?
The "employee's representative" could be a union?
Does this mean, if their are enough unionized employees in any one workplace, that they could negotiate the same contract for all of them?

1 Reply

@msolga,

(don't feel obliged to find answers for my questions, Jane, if that involves extra work for you. OK? Smile

)

1 Reply

@msolga,

A union contract can include anything that isn't outright illegal.

There is no federal law requiring time off for national holidays, paid vacations, or anything of the sort. Nearly all do something of the sort to make employment more attractive.

Federal law requires payment of of time and a half for overtime, defined as over 40 hours per week.

States may require more benefits from employers, but not less.

This is all US, of course, and didn't take any research at all.

1 Reply

@roger,

Thank you for obliging me, roger.

Quote:

A union contract can include anything that isn't outright illegal.

And the same would apply to a contract between an individual & an employer, I'd assume?

Quote:

There is no federal law requiring time off for national holidays, paid vacations, or anything of the sort. Nearly all do something of the sort to make employment more attractive.

In that case, are there some state laws that do?
I feel very sorry for vulnerable workers whose employers choose to exclude such basic concessions from their conditions of employment.

Also, if an individual US employee (on an individual contract with a private employer, perhaps in a non-unionized workplace) believes there's been some breach of her/his agreed conditions of work, what are the grievance procedure/s they'd use to pursue to have the issue addressed? And can employers who breach contract agreements be penalized in any way under the law?

Sorry to ask so many questions. I'm genuinely interested in how workers' rights & entitlements vary from country to country. Smile

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@msolga,

(Same message to you as to Jane, roger. Don't feel obliged to respond if it requires extra work on your part. Smile

)

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@msolga,

Quote:

And the same would apply to a contract between an individual & an employer, I'd assume?

Right, though I've never seen an actual written contract outside of a union job. Probably only happens with really high level employees. As you know, oral contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Quote:

In that case, are there some state laws that do?

Individual states could mandate holidays and paid vacations. I don't actually know of any. Many, or even most states do have minimum wage requirements higher that the federal rate. Also, almost no states require that accrued vacation time be paid for at termination of employment. The last company did, and without fail, but that was never a legal requirement.

Quote:

Also, if an individual US employee (on an individual contract with a private employer, perhaps in a non-unionized workplace) believes there's been some breach of her/his agreed conditions of work, what are the grievance procedure/s they'd use to pursue to have the issue addressed? And can employers who breach contract agreements be penalized in any way under the law?

Do you mean conditions of work not required by law? If there is a written agreement, it could be persued in civil court. Probably because of expense, I have never even heard of this being done. Probably happens, but not often enough to be a consideration. In the absence of a (very rare) written agreement, see my comments on the value of oral contracts.

In the case of written contract, the employer can be sued. Breach of contract is a civil affair; not criminal.

Sounds like we're all literally chained to our spinning jennys, doesn't it? Sometimes you just have to move on to what looks like a better employer. Sometimes, moving on can be difficult and expensive. Depends on the area, the economy, and the type of work.

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@roger,

Thank you so much for your time & effort, roger.

I'll have to read your post more carefully later, as I'm smack in the middle of cooking dinner.

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@roger,

Ok, I understand. Oral, not written agreements for most contract jobs.
I guess you'd just have to cross your fingers & hope that your employer is one who treats his workers with integrity.

Quote:

Also, almost no states require that accrued vacation time be paid for at termination of employment.

So unless a worker actually took their leave while on the job, they'd forfeit their the right to be recompensed financially when his/her term of employment ended.

Quote:

Do you mean conditions of work not required by law? If there is a written agreement, it could be pursued in civil court. Probably because of expense, I have never even heard of this being done. Probably happens, but not often enough to be a consideration. In the absence of a (very rare) written agreement, see my comments on the value of oral contracts.

I asked that question assuming that all workers would have a clear understanding of their rights & responsibilities while working for a particular employer.
I was wondering: if the was any breach of the employment conditions from the employer's side, where would the employee take their grievance, to achieve some resolution?
But as it's sounds like most most employment arrangements are by oral agreement, I guess it would be very hard for any worker to pursue such a case, especially as there appears no other avenue apart from through the court system.
That gives employers a helluva lot of power, yes?

Thanks, roger.
I appreciate your explanations.
I hope all my questions haven't given you a headache! Smile

1 Reply

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