7
   

U.S. Spends Too Much on Military

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 08:30 am
@raprap,
raprap wrote:

The military budget largely ignores the sage advice of Sun Tzu--


No it doesn't. No matter how fancy or expensive the weapon system
is, it always comes down to the soldier that has been trained to use it.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 08:41 am
@H2O MAN,
Then explain why the US and the USSR were defeated in Nam and Afghanistan respectively with overwhelming military technical superiority. I recommend that you and members of congress that are under the wings of military procurement contractors try to apply Sun Tzu and heeding the advice of DDE in his last speech as POTUS.

But then today, in the your eyes, waterdude, DDE was obviously a RINO and must have been Constitutionally ignorant.

Rap
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 08:56 am
A warning about excessive military expenditures by a retiring warrior from 51 years ago

Quote:
Good evening, my fellow Americans.

Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor.

This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen.

Like every other citizen I wish the new President, and all who will labor with him, Godspeed. I pray that the coming years will be blessed with peace and prosperity for all.

Our people expect their President and the Congress to find essential agreement on issues of great moment, the wise resolution of which will better shape the future of the Nation.

My own relation with the Congress, which began on a remote and tenuous basis when, long ago, a member of the Senate appointed me to West Point, have since ranged to the intimate during the war and immediate post-war period, and finally, to the mutually interdependent during these past eight years.

In this final relationship, the Congress and the Administration have, on most vital issues, cooperated well, to serve the nation good rather than mere partisanship, and so have assured that the business of the nation should go forward. So, my official relationship with the Congress ends in a feeling, on my part, of gratitude that we have been able to do so much together.

We now stand ten years past the midpoint of a century that has witnessed four major wars among great nations. Three of these involved our own country. Despite these holocausts America is today the strongest, the most influential, and most productive nation in the world. Understandably proud of this pre-eminence, we yet realize that America's leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment.

Throughout America's adventure in free government, our basic purposes have been to keep the peace, to foster progress in human achievement, and to enhance liberty, dignity and integrity among peoples and among nations. To strive for less would be unworthy of a free and religious people. Any failure traceable to arrogance or our lack of comprehension or readiness to sacrifice would inflict upon us grievous hurt, both at home and abroad.

Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology, global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily, the danger it poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint, the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle - with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.

Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small, there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defenses; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research - these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we wish to travel.

But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs, balance between the private and the public economy, balance between the cost and hoped for advantages, balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it, eventually finds imbalance and frustration.

The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of threat and stress. But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise. Of these, I mention two only.

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or, indeed, by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.

Now, this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence - economic, political, even spiritual -is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.


Akin to and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists, in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system, ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we - you and I, and our government - must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

During the long lane of the history yet to be written, America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.

Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.

Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent, I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war, as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years, I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.

Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road.

So, in this my last good night to you as your President, I thank you for the many opportunities you have given me for public service in war and in peace. I trust that in that service you find some things worthy; as for the rest of it, I know you will find ways to improve performance in the future.

You and I, my fellow citizens, need to be strong in our faith that all nations under God, will reach the goal of peace with justice. May we be ever unswerving in devotion to principle, confident but humble with power, diligent in pursuit of the Nation's great goals.

To all the peoples of the world, I once more give expression to America's prayerful and continuing aspiration:

We pray that peoples of all faiths, all races, all nations, may have their great human needs satisfied; that those now denied opportunity shall come to enjoy it to the full; that all who yearn for freedom may experience its spiritual blessings; those who have freedom will understand, also, its heavy responsibilities; that all who are insensitive to the needs of others will learn charity; that the scourges of poverty, disease and ignorance will be made to disappear from the earth; and that, in the goodness of time, all peoples will come to live together in a peace guaranteed by the binding force of mutual respect and love.


Rap
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 08:59 am
@raprap,


FapFap, the US should never have gone into Vietnam and we are
doing very well in AFG despite democrats efforts to limit support.

I recommend wars be fought with the commitment we saw during
WWII, take the gloves off and crush the enemy or don't get involved.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 09:12 am
@H2O MAN,
As of June 11th (2011) Gates and Petraeus aren't making the same mistakes as Westmoreland in 67

Is U.S. Winning in Afghanistan? Gates and Petraeus Won't Say

Rap
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 09:18 am
@raprap,
But democrats continue to be non-supportive of our troops.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 09:36 am
@H2O MAN,
BS waterdude--many Democrats have children in the military.

Rap
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 09:42 am
@raprap,
You fail FapFap.

I'm talking about democrats in the house, senate and the White House.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:04 am
@H2O MAN,
Everytime you open your mouth, waterdude, the only thing you manage to do is change feet.

Lawmakers have loved ones in combat zone

Rap
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:10 am
@raprap,


FapFap, you really should switch hands...

and I never said anything about democrats not having family members
in active duty, that was you attempting to lay down a smoke screen.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:12 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:
we are
doing very well in AFG


Do you not keep up with the news? It's a complete mess there. Getting worse by the week.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:15 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Why do you ramble on so much?
If the question behind your question is why do I waste time on you to say nothing of effort; then God only knows...
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:15 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:


we are doing very well in AFG despite democrats efforts to limit support.


Do you not keep up with the news? It's a complete mess there. Getting worse by the week.


You must be drinking the blue Kool-Aid, I said we are doing very well despite democrats efforts to limit support -
we could do better if democrats would support our troops.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:16 am
@H2O MAN,
Afghanistan is not doing well. It doesn't matter how much money is thrown at it. The west does not understand what's going on there, never has, never will.

Any money put into "war" there is bad money after bad.

______


I don't do koolaid of any colour.

Not sure what your problem is.
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:26 am
@raprap,
raprap wrote:

The military budget largely ignores the sage advice of Sun Tzu--wars are not won with fancy and expensive weapons systems--wars are won by the will of the people.

That alone is not consistent with an inflated military budget.

Rap
It is like they never read any of the books of any of the great military writers, not Napoleon, not Frederic the Great, not Clusewitz or Sun Tzu... They could stand to read Mao and Ho as well... They could pay attention to MacArthur... They could read about N. B. Forrest... I think the belief that technology and Jesus Christ will carry every battle lures them into a false and failing optimism... They should remember first and foremost that democracies are a defensive form of social organization, and that defense is the most cost effective form of warfare... We do not have democracy, and the generals we make are more interested in killing working people than in winning wars...

They know the working people of this country pay for everything because they have no choice, so they do not consider the cost... A minimum of deaths is aimed at to keep war palletable... The fact is -that no one, not soldiers, not generals, nor politicians find anything in this land worth dying for... All the good that Americans have laid down their lives for have been robbed from their children... Our soldiers today are mercenaries, laying their lives on the line for money or opportunity which is in short supply.... If they were like the Muslims, fearing God and not fearing death, they would conquer all...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:32 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

raprap wrote:

The military budget largely ignores the sage advice of Sun Tzu--


No it doesn't. No matter how fancy or expensive the weapon system
is, it always comes down to the soldier that has been trained to use it.
Try to guess how many people we have doing our killing from cube farms in Maryland, who do their jobs and get to go home to their families and never smell their own fear or the guts they have left scattered all over Afghanistan that is all that is left of human beings... It used to be man to man... It used to mean something when men fought and only one went home... Now we just have technological murder that is very expensive murder at that... The man on the ground, the only one answerable for his deeds must deal with the aftermath of civilian populations that hate us to our souls... We have no honor among people who know and value honor, so we will never have peace...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 10:34 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

But democrats continue to be non-supportive of our troops.
Trot out that old lie again in order to keep this nation stuck in a dead end war... At least when the Russians wanted to leave they did not have to overcome the resistence of the most stupid part of their population to do so...
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 11:03 am
@ehBeth,
When waterman realizes he is losing an arguement he gits insulting in the hopes that one will give up. He is what is known as a bad loser.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 11:06 am
@H2O MAN,
You mean Democrats like Michelle Bachmann, waterdude?

Bachmann plan would cut veterans benefits

Rap
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 12:32 pm
http://www.willisms.com/archives/defensebudgetandgdp.gif
0 Replies
 
 

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