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If everything that exists needs a God to create it, who created God?

 
 
godisgood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2011 09:13 am
@Cyracuz,
I think i expressed this thought to u in previous posts (talking in circles) . Again bcause someone disagrees with u or does not share ur understanding does not mean they r half witted. Even if it is obvious to u dont say it. Thats the problem in the world if people disagree they end up attacking verbally or physically. Its obvious that before arguing about a viewpoint/word u should first define it. Thats a fact i mentioned ALREADY.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2011 11:05 am
@godisgood,
Quote:
Its obvious that before arguing about a viewpoint/word u should first define it.


Yes. But "god" has never been properly and conclusively defined. So arguing about it never leads to anything but trouble.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2011 12:25 pm
@Cyracuz,
That's because god is a figment of each person's imagination; they pray to "it" and expect results that most often never happens. Thanking god for their food and job is an oxymoron.
0 Replies
 
Ashers
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:51 pm
I don't think the problem is the haziness of the concept in and of itself. Love is a hazy concept but the world would be a poorer place without art elaborating on it's ineffability in the way that it has. To me the problem is that through a basic misunderstanding it purports to represent everything in a snapshot. That everything includes you and me, objectified under a particular system at the whim of the believer. So the problem is people trying to dominate and control others through a system. And they acheive this by virtue of the fact that god is taken to be all-encompassing so any definition typically defines all peoples within. For better or worse. And of course, this is all too often the case.

What's interesting to me is that beyond a certain basic level of maturity I find most people appreciative, to some extent, of the fact that their statements about love (for instance) are representative there and then of who they are. Whether that is relative to a certain day of the week, month or year of their life. We appreciate that when we make a statement about something so subjective, it's a potentially very private thing, an expression. It's like setting up a camera to take just this particular shot. Why that shot? The answer I think, speaks to our being which moment by moment is beyond concepts. But just because a concept misses its target, just because it's limited, doesn't make the process meaningless. In fact, to me, that is were the beauty itself lies. Something all powerful cannot be beautiful to me, it's the very fragile nature of a meagre but genuine attempt to express the ineffable that makes it so.

On a sidenote, I believe Krishnamurti had some interesting words with regards to Love. In spite of the fact that the concept is often accompanied with quite a possessive nature in much of society, he didn't shy away from using the word because of such "misconceptions". Maybe something similar can be done for God.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 12:12 pm
Hate to remind you of this simple fact of life; be good to all humans, be honest, and share your abundance with others. You can forget about any religion or gods.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 06:15 pm
@Jeremiah,
You are applying the law of causality to God?

If as you have assumed God is finite, then he too has a God or something to report to/ignore/question the existence of. If God is infinite, he had no beginning and therefore no end.
If as a third option God does not exist, this thread would be entirely resolved.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2011 04:15 pm
The idea is that some things do not have a beginning or end...

Love for instance... Who is the father/mother of love? If the parent of love had love themselves or their parents then it existed before. It is as if love is an eternal isness. Some theists use this realm to also define God. Does love have a beginning? Can love be created or does it simply need to be.

Like light, God is attributed with simply speaking it into being and the Bible did not actually use terminology of God creating the light. And if God created the universe what tools and materials did God use? These must have preexisted so called "creation" itself. Even as the story goes, darkness and void existed and predated aspects of creation. Out of many millions of years humans have only had civilized intellect for about 12 thousand years. Did intellect exist before that? It boils down to the question of, what do darkness and void consist of? How close can mass approach zero? Does zero still have charms, power and qualities even though it is in an elusive realm of its own? Before existence there was zero mass, space and time. Did existence still exist even thought it was within zero and only a dream, or is existence part of the same isness?
0 Replies
 
Procrustes
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2011 09:37 pm
0 Replies
 
Philis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 12:46 am
@Jeremiah,
God does not exist out of nothing, he has just always been, we are his creation. God was Not created, we are the creation. Why cant you see that.
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 06:30 am
@Philis,
Perhaps because it's childish non-sense? Do you think every creation myth ever invented is true, or just yours?
0 Replies
 
Procrustes
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 06:59 am
@Philis,
To add to Eorl's points, why is god a 'he'? (previous posters may have touched on this) Couldn't we just say we don't know how everything came to be but we're working on an answer?
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 07:30 am
@Procrustes,
That video is superb, btw!
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 08:49 am
@Philis,
Philis wrote:

God does not exist out of nothing, he has just always been, we are his creation. God was Not created, we are the creation. Why cant you see that.


I always get a really good laugh when people talk like the above. I just want to pat them on the head.

Okay, so I will humor you for a minute.

If god exists and made everything, what did he make everything out of? I mean people want to use this stupid painter and painting analogy. So where did go get all the stuff to make everything from? You mean he got it from nothing? God made everything from nothing, yet nothing can come from nothing? I really like that circular reasoning, I'm surprised that believers don't constantly walk around dizzy and their pupils spinning in circles.

I really like how god can create everything from nothing, but nothing can create itself from nothing. That's impossible! ha ha nice logic...
outgoingpeep
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 05:11 pm
@Krumple,
I couldn't help but chuckle at your thread. I have to agree with Philis.

God is God, God is NOT a human being, therefore, he doesn't create things like we humans do. Of course, if you are not a believer there's no sense of you reading my post because then we are going to be going around in circles and I wouldn't want for your pupils to be spinning in circles.
idolhater
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 12:25 am
@Jeremiah,
God is the Initiator of all.
Including the limited base reality we are now bound in to grow souls.
Our perception of time does not apply to the Initiator... before? after?
Questions of limited awareness.


Procrustes
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 12:46 am
@outgoingpeep,
Quote:
God is God, God is NOT a human being, therefore, he doesn't create things like we humans do.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 03:37 am
@idolhater,
Big claim. Prove it.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 12:32 pm
@idolhater,
idolhater wrote:
Our perception of time does not apply to the Initiator... before? after?
Questions of limited awareness.


If a thing/being/god (how ever you want to address it as) exists in a place where there is no time. Then that thing can not DO anything AT ALL. It is impossible to do, or act, without time. It is nothing different than saying a square circle exists. You can say it all you want, but it makes absolutely no sense to do so. It is nonsense to claim a thing can do something in a realm without time. So if a god exists in a realm without time, then it might as well be a photograph because that god can not do or act or make anything what so ever.
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 06:27 pm
@Krumple,
You might be on to something, since every god ever thunk up seems to have done precisely nothing!
0 Replies
 
idolhater
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 09:42 pm
@Krumple,
I said OUR perception of time.
Relatively speaking.
There is observable phenomenon that points to conscious organized
Initiation of our univerese.
As for proof...prove it's not
Can we prove what is beautiful?
In love?
hungry?
Use the mind that mysteriously appeard and observe.





 

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