20
   

when is Schroedinger's cat dead, and when is it not?

 
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 01:06 pm
@timur,
Very Happy
Alas, Frank makes no claim to be "learned". Indeed he makes something of a virtue of "not being the sharpest pencil in the pack". But the "babble" description is certainly appropriate.

Unfortunately, some posters think that philosophy is a free-for-all subject in which "common sense views" and "ordinary language" are as good as anything else. The opposite is the case. Philosophical views are often counter-intuitive and even shocking. Language itself has become a central focus of philosophical inquiry from both a syntagmatic (current contextual) sense, and a paradigmatic (historically developed) sense.

No doubt phrases I use such as "my research" are annoying or appear supercilious to some casual posters. In that respect, I always point to the mission statement of A2K to get the views of "experts". Since I am regularly asked to write peer reviewed papers on some of these issues, which of necessity must be supported by references to "experts", I would hope to go some way in the direction of mission fulfilment.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 01:06 pm
@fresco,
It is MADE of shredded frogs, shredded in the French intellectual debate in the early 70s and exported to the US universities, where they started what's called the French theory. Aka post-modernism. The last time it's been spotted on the French cultural radar is when Sokal and Bricmont ridiculed them in 1997 (Impostures Intellectuelles). From Wiki:

Quote:
Sokal and Bricmont claim that they do not intend to analyze postmodernist thought in general. Rather, they aim to draw attention to the abuse of concepts from mathematics and physics, subjects they've devoted their careers to studying and teaching. Sokal and Bricmont define abuse of mathematics and physics as:

- Using scientific or pseudoscientific terminology without bothering much about what these words mean.
- Importing concepts from the natural sciences into the humanities without the slightest justification, and without providing any rationale for their use.
- Displaying superficial erudition by shamelessly throwing around technical terms where they are irrelevant, presumably to impress and intimidate the non-specialist reader.
- Manipulating words and phrases that are, in fact, meaningless.
- Self-assurance on topics far beyond the competence of the author and exploiting the prestige of science to give discourses a veneer of rigor.
timur
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 01:15 pm
Fresco wrote:
Alas, Frank makes no claim to be "learned". Indeed he makes something of a virtue of "not being the sharpest pencil in the pack". But the "babble" description is certainly appropriate.

As far as I'm concerned, Frank is the epitome of anti-intellectualism, which is quite rampant in the US.

As the average individual, he is proud of that (your knowledge is as good as my ignorance).
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 01:39 pm
@timur,
timur wrote:

Olivier wrote:
Disdain is cheap. You can get tons of it for nothing, every one of us make some. I for one disdain people who pretend to be learned but are in fact just throwing everything they misread into some amorphous, unstructured mixture of pseudo-philosophical platitudes... and swirl the whole thing into some **** storm or another.

What an accurate description of Frank's babble!


What's the matter sad clown...world not treating you right?

Poor guy.

The real babble here is being spewed by people like you and Olivier.

Nothing else new here folks...move along.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 01:43 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Very Happy
Alas, Frank makes no claim to be "learned". Indeed he makes something of a virtue of "not being the sharpest pencil in the pack". But the "babble" description is certainly appropriate.

Unfortunately, some posters think that philosophy is a free-for-all subject in which "common sense views" and "ordinary language" are as good as anything else. The opposite is the case. Philosophical views are often counter-intuitive and even shocking. Language itself has become a central focus of philosophical inquiry from both a syntagmatic (current contextual) sense, and a paradigmatic (historically developed) sense.

No doubt phrases I use such as "my research" are annoying or appear supercilious to some casual posters. In that respect, I always point to the mission statement of A2K to get the views of "experts". Since I am regularly asked to write peer reviewed papers on some of these issues, which of necessity must be supported by references to "experts", I would hope to go some way in the direction of mission fulfilment.




Careful of your arm, Fresco. Patting yourself on the back as much as you do can end up doing serious damage.

So expert...you are telling us YOU know the truth about REALITY?

(Now comes the fog of semantic manipulation in reply!)



http://www.upstartbayarea.org/storage/fog-4.jpg
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 02:06 pm
@Olivier5,
Chacun a sa grenouille !

However, genuine thanks for that informative reference !
Whether it addresses issues of non-duality is unclear.

timur
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 02:07 pm
Frank wrote:
So expert...you are telling us YOU know the truth about REALITY?


Hey, Fresco, do you know the expert of naive-realism? Very Happy
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 02:16 pm
@timur,
Yes. That was Sam's wife who kept asking "who would pay the wages" when Sam set up business on his own. That woman seems to have a like minded relation on A2K. Wink
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 02:28 pm
@fresco,
Sure thing, Kermit.

Read Karl Popper too, the grand master of 20th century realism. It's far from naive.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 03:03 pm
@Olivier5,
Hmm..... I've just found this quote from a biography of Rorty.
Quote:
Rorty does not fit well within the group of writers usually associated with such (post-modernist) trends. Because he writes clearly and straightforwardly he could not figure in the anthology of French bullshitting that Sokal and Bricmont have compiled

My own favoring of some aspects post-modernism is second-hand via Rorty who tended to cite it against a phenomenological background (Heidegger, etc)
That background is of course one of "constructivism" rather than "discovery"....
.....of active phenomenological processes rather than passive empiricism....
...of Kuhnian paradigmatic progression rather than Popperian falsifiabilty.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 03:22 pm
@timur,
timur wrote:

Frank wrote:
So expert...you are telling us YOU know the truth about REALITY?


Hey, Fresco, do you know the expert of naive-realism? Very Happy


http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/sad-clown-luiza-turcan.jpg
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 06:14 pm
@fresco,
But Kuhn is even more realist than Popper; his view of scientific discovery is less idealist than Popper's and closer to an actual human affair. And none of them ever thought that his cup of java disappears into thin air when he's not looking at it...

This idea that human perception is central to the universe is a rehashing of old religious lunacies about man being made in the image of God and earth being put at the center of the universe. You have to realise that in a post-Copernic world, earth is nothing much, and that in a post-Darwin world, humans on it are just one species among others and came from a long line of ancestor species, which were not human. The existence of human beings cannot be seriously understood otherwise today. Therefore humans are only central to their own perception of stuff, not to the universe itself. Sorry to break your bubble but humans are negligible in the universe.
carloslebaron
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 07:29 pm
Some dudes can't recognize that modern discoveries have made obsolete great philosophy of the past because many questions have been answered already with great accuracy.

Until the 60's, Socrates was very respected in the medical field, but after new technology and a more advance science, Socrates causes no more than a grinder smile.

Another example is about time, which is nothing but a measure, a concept. Kant was right when he concluded the same. The rest of philosophers and their thoughts thinking of time as something else other than a concept cause smiles as well.

And, the more advanced science and general knowledge become, the more philosophical views must be put in the attic if not discarded.

Of course, for the ones who invested lots of years learning the thoughts of past philosophical mummies, well, they must update their thoughts and "start" again because otherwise they will become obsolete as well.

Like a doctor is renewing continually the knowledge of new medicines and diseases, or an attorney being updated about new laws, or the electrician checking the new codes, philosophy can't be discussed in base of past knowledge.

My philosophical question is about the cat: a Siamese cat? a Birman cat? an Abyssinian cat?... Uh?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 10:00 pm
@Olivier5,
Along with Rorty I reject the dichotomy realism/antirealism on the grounds of (human) linguistic non-representationalism. There is no bubble to burst. Scientific realists, of whom Einstein was a notable example, tend to feel threatened by the probabilistic nature of the dominant quantum paradigm. Pragmatists and non-dualists do not. That's all there is to it.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 10:07 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Along with Rorty I reject the dichotomy realism/antirealism on the grounds of (human) linguistic non-representationalism. There is no bubble to burst. Scientific realists, of whom Einstein was a notable example, tend to feel threatened by the probabilistic nature of the dominant quantum paradigm. Pragmatists and non-dualists do not. That's all there is to it.


http://www.playingwithwords365.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/What-Is-Babbling-Image-525x441.png
0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2014 11:38 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Along with Rorty I reject the dichotomy realism/antirealism on the grounds of (human) linguistic non-representationalism. There is no bubble to burst. Scientific realists, of whom Einstein was a notable example, tend to feel threatened by the probabilistic nature of the dominant quantum paradigm. Pragmatists and non-dualists do not. That's all there is to it.


His theories of relativity are as false as a thirteen dollars bill, subjective time can't dilate at all. End of the story.

His cosmological religion pulled one follower: he himself. Nobody bought his religious ideas.

So, what was poor Einstein good at? As far as it is known, he never even conducted a single experiment, all he did was "thought experiments"... which were found as out of reality by L. Essen, the inventor of the atomic clock.

According to the notes from people who were closed to him, he showed all the symptoms to be diagnosed as an autistic, a retarded or a dude having ADD. Even his brain was deformed.

Give an example corroborating your praising on Einstein other than some philosophical quotes that who knows they really belong to him.

Was the cat male or female? Believe it or not, the gender of the cat has 99% influence in the survival of the feline when the box was finally opened. Uh?





fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2014 12:42 am
@carloslebaron,
My niece is quite a good optician. I can send her contact number if you like.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:38 am
@fresco,
You reject the very dichotomy that you use day in and day out? AND THEN you use the dichotomy again by calling Einstein a realist.

So what are the rule of your verbiage. You don't need logical coherence. You throw away representation and facts. What does remain? Do you still care for grammatical correctness perhaps, or can we throw that away too?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:40 am
@Olivier5,
Encore une fois. Thats all there is to itas far as this thread is concerned.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2014 08:12 am
@fresco,
That's all there is to you: empty words not even TRYING to make sense.
 

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