19
   

Did Waterboarding lead to the death of Osama?

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:44 pm
@Doubt doubt,
Kinda depends on the context in which you're using the word

Quote:
Science Dictionary
brittle (brĭt'l) Pronunciation Key
Having a tendency to break when subject to high stress. Brittle materials have undergone very little strain when they reach their elastic limit, and tend to break at that limit. Compare ductile.
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:45 pm
@Doubt doubt,
Hmmm--this morning I cut a section of 6X6 structural I beam with an acetylene torch and now, DoubleD, you tell me I needed a plasma one to cut it---what am I to do?--guess I'll have to walk out to the shop and weld them back together and use the right DoubleD tool.
Doubt doubt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:46 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:

More of you misconception--equal moles of O2 and kerosene will result in incomplete combustion. Firefighters call this condition backdraft and it can add explosion to the mix of combustion.

Second--springs are steel and if steel was brittle, springs wouldn't be springy.






Im done with you. that spring statement means you dont even understand what alloys are. or that there are loads of different things called steel. any mix of carbon and iron in any ratio up to 3% or so is steel. its X steel or Y steel. Add other metals to the steal and carbon in any ratio and its Z steel and such. stainless is 0.2%carbon 30% Tungsten or something.
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:49 pm
@Doubt doubt,
Whoa! I guess I'll have to burn my certificates and degrees now along with my accolades and see if any of my projects are blowing away in the wind.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:51 pm
@Doubt doubt,
dude, jesse ventura, alex jones and coast to coast am are entertainment, not valid news sources

i love them (well not that douche jesse), but it's theatre of the mind
0 Replies
 
Doubt doubt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:53 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:


THanks? do i add cant read to my list of complaints about you?

exactly what i said. steel that breaks but doesnt bend but at the same time has a high tensile strength i snot brittle in any sense of the word. thanks

–adjective
1.
having hardness and rigidity but little tensile strength; breaking readily with a comparatively smooth fracture, as glass.
2.
easily damaged or destroyed; fragile; frail: a brittle marriage.
3.
lacking warmth, sensitivity, or compassion; aloof; self-centered: a self-possessed, cool, and rather brittle person.
4.
having a sharp, tense quality: a brittle tone of voice.
5.
unstable or impermanent; evanescent.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:01 pm
@Doubt doubt,
Quote:
Same as Rap. We are talking about construction grade Steel beams. all thet things you listed are Iron+carbon+other metal.

Yeah? And?

Which construction grade steel beams are you talking about? My steel catalog doesn't list any structural steel with 1-2% carbon and no other metals. ASTM A36 is the most common structural steel found in I-beams etc. It contains Mn, P, S, and Si.

So.. which grade steel do you think you are talking about.

ASTM A588, the only other structural shapes I can buy from the largest steel supplier in the Midwest and it also contains Mn, P, S, and Si as well as Carbon.

Quote:
But i repeat nobody is bending 2% carbon construction grade steel.
The only reason nobody is bending 2% carbon steel is because nobody makes it. I have on my desk the catalogs from 2 major steel suppliers. Both list the properties of their steel which must meet standards set out by ASTM.

Why should I read your 8th grade text book when I have the technical information from the manufacturer in front of me?

Here, this link will take you to basically what I am seeing from the manufacturers. Check out both carbon and alloy steels and their compositions.
http://www.thompsonsteelco.com/page190.html
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:03 pm
@parados,
Nope, you still don't get it. I don't have any problem with what you say, so don't paint me with that brush. If you can't do it, then fine. I could care less. All I'm saying is I'm not gonna read your post after your first interjection. When you reply to my words then that is when I stop to read your reply and then I am done with that post. It's entirely up to you.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:04 pm
@DrewDad,
Oh, I already know you don't care. You don't care about anything but getting your needs met by government because you're too damn stupid and lazy to make it on your own.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:10 pm
@parados,
Quote:
You are making a lot of assumptions that are false.

...

4. There is a lot of plastic in any office. My desk has about 20 lbs of plastic laminate, a computer monitor, speakers, printer, pens, CD cases, keyboard, mouse , plastic drawer dividers, plastic in/out trays, plastic in my office chair. There are easily 30-40 pounds of plastic just at my desk.



NIST scientists developed a novel way to evaluate the impact of the fire on the WTC steel. According to the report, the approach was “easy to implement and robust enough to examine the entire component in the field.”[33] They found that the original primer paint used on the steel beams and columns was altered by high heat. This made it possible to determine the level of exposure by analyzing the paint on the samples.[34]

But the results were surprising. NIST found no evidence that any of the steel samples, including those from the impact areas and fire-damaged floors, had reached temperatures exceeding 1,110ºF (600ºC).[35] Sixteen recovered perimeter columns showed evidence of having been exposed to fire, but even so, out of 170 areas examined on these columns only three locations had reached temperatures in excess of 250ºC (450ºF).[36] Moreover, NIST found no evidence that any of the recovered core columns had reached even this minimal temperature.[37] The startling fact is that NIST’s own data failed to support its conclusion that the fires of 9/11 heated up the steel columns, causing them to weaken and buckle.


How might we explain this absence of evidence? Shyam Sunder, NIST’s lead scientist, probably offered a partial answer when he admitted that “the jet fuel....burned out in less than ten minutes.”[38] Also, the actual amount of combustibles in the WTC turned out to be less than expected–––considerably less. In its 2002 report FEMA had noted that


“fuel loads in office-type occupancies typically range from about 4-12 psf [pounds per square foot], with the mean slightly less than 8 psf….At the burning rate necessary to yield these fires, a fuel load of about 5 psf would be required to maintain the fire at full force for an hour...”[39]


Yet, when NIST scientists crunched the numbers they found that a typical floor of the WTC did not even have this minimum level of combustibles. The average was only about 4 psf.[40] The shocking fact is that the twin towers were fuel-poor, compared with other office buildings: a finding, notice, that does not support the frequent depictions in the media of a ferocious inferno raging beyond anything in human experience.

More importantly, neither does it support NIST’s favored collapse scenario. The spillage of jet fuel ignited the combustibles, spreading the fires at a faster rate than would otherwise have occurred. Yet, for this same reason the fires also burned out sooner, because the fuel load was so low.

Indeed, NIST scientists estimated that on average the WTC fires burned through the available combustibles at maximum temperatures (1,000ºC) in only about 15-20 minutes.[41] After which, the fires began to subside. To make matters worse for the official collapse theory, NIST also found that “the fuel loading in the core areas....was negligible.”[42] It’s easy to understand why all of these facts are downplayed in the NIST summary report. Taken together, they are fatal to NIST’s collapse model, which requires that high temperatures be sustained. Fires that subside after only 15-20 minutes simply cannot weaken enormous steel columns and cause them to buckle.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:15 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Nope, you still don't get it. I don't have any problem with what you say, so don't paint me with that brush.
No need to paint you. You have stated as much.
Quote:

If you can't do it, then fine. I could care less.
Obviously you could care less because you have spent all this time complaining about it. Caring less, would mean we don't have to see you here any more, right?
Quote:
All I'm saying is I'm not gonna read your post after your first interjection.
See.. You painted yourself with that brush. I am only pointing out that you do that.
Quote:
When you reply to my words then that is when I stop to read your reply and then I am done with that post. It's entirely up to you.
So, if I post your words then I am NOT replying to them? What kind of bizarro world do you live in?
0 Replies
 
Doubt doubt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:17 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:

Engine Blocks and heads are grey cast iron not steel(AKA pot metal AKA a form of steel AKA IRON CARBON MIX high enough to be poured in a cast)--tool steel is high carbon steel so they can keep a cutting edge. Tool steels( wrong again. tool steel gets its propertys from a 3rd metal, most often vanadium. this allows strength while being lite enough to use,) are also very hard and are subject to being brittle. Structural steels, generally, are lower carbon so they can maintain ductility with a good tensile strength. (They are mid to high carbon but typically only contain lead and carbon without a 3rd or so metal)

Metals, aren't chemically considered crystalline solids--metallic atoms are in a matrix that is affected by additions of other elements (carbon, silicon, oxygen, tins, etal--alloying) that change physical and chemical properties. (yep their called ores) These atomic nuclei are affixed in what is commonly called a 'sea of electrons'. Chemical and physical properties of alloys can also be modified by heat treating (tempering). In addition crystalline solids aren't good conductors of heat and electricity like metals and alloys.(Yes. this is why the carbon is used. it hold the electrons in place and gives construction grade steel its rigid crystalline structure. Which is why it breaks, not bends. said this a few times now) Moreover, crystalline solids tend to be brittle and have a poor strength to weight ratio,(Yep. exactly why you mix 2%carbon with iron to get a compound with the tensile strength of metal with the rigidity of carbon) which is why tall buildings and large bridges aren't constructed completely out of stone and concrete (poor tensile strength, good in compression). That is why steel reinforcement is used with concrete--usually with prestressing (stretched)while the concrete sets.

If you want a demonstration of the flexibility of steel--walk to the middle of a large steel truss bridge and wait for a semi to pass--that vibration is the springiness or the structural steel.( Yes their is slight flex to any physical object but the vibration you speak of stems from the expansion joints for the most part)


As for gold, it is a heavy malleable (soft) metal that is easily worked---gold is also inert which is why it can be found in nature as placer. Gold is also a very good conductor of electricity. Usually gold is alloyed to decrease it's malleability.

Get a grip doubleD, your continued use of Fahrenheit instead of Celsius demonstrates you're American and not particularly technically cognizant.
( i Didnt think you would know what Kelvins are so F it is)
Rap



Doubt doubt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:19 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Kinda depends on the context in which you're using the word

Quote:
Science Dictionary
brittle (brĭt'l) Pronunciation Key
Having a tendency to break when subject to high stress. Brittle materials have undergone very little strain when they reach their elastic limit, and tend to break at that limit. Compare ductile.



scientific discussion on a philosophy forum. I assume the definition would be used. kinda hard to get much done if we are probing people for definitions all day. Wittgenstein anyone??
Doubt doubt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:21 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:

Hmmm--this morning I cut a section of 6X6 structural I beam with an acetylene torch and now, DoubleD, you tell me I needed a plasma one to cut it---what am I to do?--guess I'll have to walk out to the shop and weld them back together and use the right DoubleD tool.


Your words have been proven false about 20 times already. anyone can look back a few pages and see your just copy pasting stuff from google now. a few pages back you didnt know the difference now your a welder. get a grip.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:22 pm
@Doubt doubt,
Doubt doubt wrote:
Wittgenstein anyone??


could i have a Heineken instead?
Doubt doubt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:24 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:

Whoa! I guess I'll have to burn my certificates and degrees now along with my accolades and see if any of my projects are blowing away in the wind.


yea right. not even a basic understanding chemistry and your a chemical engineer. fancy title for janitor or something?? and your an engineer, doubt it very much sir.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:25 pm
@Doubt doubt,
Regardless of the URL you use to get here, you're discussing scientific topics.

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:26 pm
@JTT,
I see you have ignored the fact that a large plane hit the building JTT.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:28 pm
@djjd62,
Heinekin's alright I suppose but if you want something really good you want an urquell pilsner.
Doubt doubt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:30 pm
@parados,
I dont know man I am a chemist so i never bought beams. im sure they have trace amounts of things added but i doubt your book sells 200ton beams WTC style. pretty sure thats made to order.
 

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