Did Waterboarding lead to the death of Osama?

Let me say first that anyone that knows anything about physics and chemistry knows bin laden and the plane crashes had nothing to do with the towers collapse. People can say what they want but its just physically impossible one many levels.

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It is a joke because it is irrelevant. The jet fuel which burns around 500 degrees in open air would have been gone within 5 minutes. that leaves carpet drywall and furniture. Even in the best conditions this could not burn hot enough to weaken steel to any significant degree. In the videos you can clearly see the thick black smoke. this means that the fire was oxygen starved. Also steel is a great conductor of heat which would spread the heat out

1. No one has said the jet fuel caused the steel to weaken.
2. You forget paper and other office items.
3. Man has been melting and working iron for centuries with nothing but a wood fire so your argument that steel can not be weakened in the best of conditions is false.
4. Black smoke is NOT only indicative of an oxygen starved fire. A tire burned in an oxygen rich environment will give off black smoke. Many plastics burned in an oxygen rich environment will also give off black smoke.
5. Steel conducts heat, but not at the rate you think it does. A 6' steel rod put in a propane furnace will get red hot on one end but the other end does not.

"Melted" Steel

Claim: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength—and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

Read more: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Debunking the Myths - World Trade Center - Popular Mechanics

response to number 3.
well you have no idea what you are talking about. iron melting is nothing yes but iron and steel are not similar at all in property's. Thats why it is used in the first place. ALso making steel is not hard, One the steel is finished and tempered the heat it took to make it will not hurt it at all. Steel is used in building because it does not bend, it breaks. it is either unaffected (or it cracks like glass. THis is of course after it has been made into steel. I distinctly remember this being covered in 8th grade science.

No that is the adiabatic flame temperature of #2 Jet fuel. I think you are confusing flash point (kindling temperature) with flame temperature.

You are correct, #2 jet fuel is effectively fuel oil which is a combustible and not a flammable liquid (like gasoline with a flash point around 140 degrees F). Consequently it is combustible liquids are more difficult to ignite than a flammable liquid, but once ignited the flame physics is pretty well established and the adiabatic flame temperature is 1080 degrees Celsius.

That or else several engineering projects I've developed in the past are magically working.

Rap

Doubt doubt wrote:

Let me say first that anyone that knows anything about physics and chemistry knows bin laden and the plane crashes had nothing to do with the towers collapse. People can say what they want but its just physically impossible one many levels.

Are you wearing your AFDB right now?

I think the main problem with all of this, is that such a plan would be a work of genius....And Bush was president.

I think the main problem with all of this, is that such a plan would be a work of genius....And Bush was president.

Fuel Oil/Fuel Gas Burn Temperatures
Index Key: ENG049
Author: jeff d gilbertson
Subject: Fuel oil/Fuel gas burn temperatures.
We have two different types of burners on our boilers. Natural gas and fuel
oil. Our information indicates that the natural gas flame burns at about
3000 degrees. We have no information about the fuel oil temperature. The
natural gas has a btu content of 1027 btu/cf. The fuel oil has a btu
content of 18,100 btu/lb. Could you tell me at what temperature the oil
fire would burn? In case it is necessary, we use Babcock & Wilcox return
flow oil burner and ring type gas burners. Their capacities are 5,660
lbs/hr oil and 1,600 cfm gas.

Response #: 1 of 1
Author: david r munoz
This is a complicated question and can probably best be answered by measure-
ment. You can calculate the adiabatic flame temperature for any fuel air
oxidation reaction (fancy terminology for combustion). Adiabatic means
without heat transfer (losses). Therefore, if you had a perfectly insulated
chamber and you had a combustion process occurring and you measured the
flame temperature, you would be measuring the adiabatic flame temperature.
However, in real burner applications, there is always heat transfer and this
is the complicating factor. Either you estimate the heat transfer loss and
include it on the balance of energy equation that is used to find the flame
temperature or you measure the flame temperature. Looking in one of my
references, I see that I cannot readily find a value for the adiabatic flame
temperature of fuel oil. However, I would say that your
3000 degrees F is probably a good estimate (+ or - 100 F).

Ticomaya wrote:

Are you wearing your AFDB right now?

no clue what that is ...

... but i assume its slander on your part to avoid learning a thing or two. seems like this is the wrong place for that.

Man! I don't know where to start---

Quote:

response to number 3.
well you have no idea what you are talking about. iron melting is nothing yes but iron and steel are not similar at all in property's. Thats why it is used in the first place. ALso making steel is not hard, One the steel is finished and tempered the heat it took to make it will not hurt it at all. Steel is used in building because it does not bend, it breaks. it is either unaffected (or it cracks like glass. THis is of course after it has been made into steel. I distinctly remember this being covered in 8th grade science.

There are lot of different types of carbon steel and their physical properties (ductility, brittleness, yield strength, modulus of elasticity, tensile strength, etal) vary all over the place. But structural steel alloys all have one property that they aren't. They aren't brittle. As a matter of condition, brittleness is the one property you don't want in a structural application. Why? Structures move and if the structure to remain upright (standing) the structural steel has to be elastic.

If you want an example of the elasticity of structural steel just go to the penthouse observation deck of a tall building on a windy day. The building will sway. If it doesn't it probably is lying on the ground.

Rap