Did Waterboarding lead to the death of Osama?

@Renaldo Dubois,

Quote:

what do you call shooting an unarmed human being in the face?

Probably a cover up of gigantic proportions.

@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You're confusing "the law" with "war". That's why your morals are appearing so twisted lately. War changes everything that makes sense. You don't get that and until you get it, you're gonna keep sounding confused.

I'm pretty clear on the concepts.

I think you're confusing "war" with "combat." There are actions one may take in combat that one may not take out of combat, even if it is wartime.

1 Reply

@Renaldo Dubois,

Does this mean you are a leftist boobie? Who'da thunk!

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@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You're weak and everyone can see it.

I don't see it; therefore your assertion is false.

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@DrewDad,

What a pile of BS. There's stuff going on that's far worse than waterboarding. You're only fooling yourself and a few other naive lefties.

Isn't it about time to pull out "We're better than them"....."We have values".......Blah, blah, blah..........

1 Reply

@Renaldo Dubois,

That's a pretty lazy answer.... "There's worse stuff going on, so let's ignore this stuff."

There's a floating garbage island the size of Texas in the Atlantic, but that doesn't stop me from picking up trash in my yard.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

And to jump on a tactic that worked and demonize those who want to save American lives is dumber than a mule humpin' a goat.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Doubt doubt wrote:

The steel is all you need to look into. The Debunking people are telling lies. you may believe it but look into it and you will see it is lies. I know chemistry and these guys are talking utter nonsense. Weakened steel is a joke.

What is a joke about weakened steel? Steel as with almost all materials loses its ability to support weight as it is heated.

It is a joke because it is irrelevant. The jet fuel which burns around 500 degrees in open air would have been gone within 5 minutes. that leaves carpet drywall and furniture. Even in the best conditions this could not burn hot enough to weaken steel to any significant degree. In the videos you can clearly see the thick black smoke. this means that the fire was oxygen starved. Also steel is a great conductor of heat which would spread the heat out. In 1991 One Meridian Plaza in Philadelphia, burned for 18 hours, did not collapse. In 2004 in Caracas, Venezuela, the 56-story Parque Central burned for more 17 hours and spread over 26 floors. Two floors collapsed, but the underlying floors did not. The Windsor Towers fire in Madrid 2005 was a true raging inferno. It burned for 20 hours, much hotter than the WTCs due to 40mph gusts of wind.The Windsor suffered partial collapse in some places, but it was slow and piecemeal but a heavy steel sky crane remained perched on the roof. All these towers burned 10 to 20 times longer, over more floors. Look these building fires up if you need empirical evidence. Get on youtube and watch videos of controlled demolitions. watch a lot then watch the WTCs fall. Building 7 is the most obvious one.

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@Doubt doubt,

Rosie O'Donnell agrees with you.

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@JTT,

Is it torture?

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@JTT,

You didn't quote me correctly.

If waterboarding is torture, then what do you call shooting an unarmed human being in the face?

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Quote:

I guess the folks behind Popular Mechanics must not know physics and chemistry, then.

Yea, DD 'Popular Mechanics', the guys who jumped on the bandwagon from the outset, advancing the pancake theory.

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@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

I am not attacking you personally. I am saying that interjecting your thoughts into my post is weak. If you want to appear stronger and more intelligent then you can quote me completely and post your reply at the end of my post. You can take that as a personal attack if you want to, but again, calling that a "personal attack, makes you look weak also. Maybe you should report it as a hate crime. Yeah, I think that would be fitting.

No, you are making the issue ME, which is a personal attack and hence a logical fallacy. You flat out state you won't answer my points because you don't like the way I present them. You attempt to represent me as being rude and somehow interrupting you which is impossible since your post is finished before I ever respond.

1 Reply

@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

And to jump on a tactic that worked and demonize those who want to save American lives is dumber than a mule humpin' a goat.

you sir are a disgrace to humanity and clearly have nothing to offer to a philosophical discussion. Find a forum for idiotic personal views. that's where your posts belong.

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@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You didn't quote me correctly.

If waterboarding is torture, then what do you call shooting an unarmed human being in the face?

murder of course.

0 Replies

@Doubt doubt,

My references indicate the flame temperature of Jet Fuel is 1080 degrees C (almost 2000 degrees F). At those temperatures steel is glowing red and loses strength pretty dramatically. Moreover, the maximum flame temperature is achieved when there is little excess oxygen available as excess oxygen adds to adiabatic heating requirements.

But what do I know, I'm just a simple (Chemical) Engineer.

Rap

2 Replies

@Doubt doubt,

Quote:

It is a joke because it is irrelevant. The jet fuel which burns around 500 degrees in open air would have been gone within 5 minutes. that leaves carpet drywall and furniture. Even in the best conditions this could not burn hot enough to weaken steel to any significant degree. In the videos you can clearly see the thick black smoke. this means that the fire was oxygen starved. Also steel is a great conductor of heat which would spread the heat out

1. No one has said the jet fuel caused the steel to weaken.
2. You forget paper and other office items.
3. Man has been melting and working iron for centuries with nothing but a wood fire so your argument that steel can not be weakened in the best of conditions is false.
4. Black smoke is NOT only indicative of an oxygen starved fire. A tire burned in an oxygen rich environment will give off black smoke. Many plastics burned in an oxygen rich environment will also give off black smoke.
5. Steel conducts heat, but not at the rate you think it does. A 6' steel rod put in a propane furnace will get red hot on one end but the other end does not.

1 Reply

@raprap,

It's the old..

It wasn't the fuel because that burned up rapidly because of the abundance of oxygen.
It wasn't the wood products because they didn't have any oxygen.

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Talking to Mr. Dubois is a bit like talking to a backward child. Look back over the thread. He contradicts himself, most of the time he doesn't understand the questions. He doesn't even understand the format, believing he's being interrupted which is impossible in this medium. He forgets what he says, and cannot spot even the most simple jokes, let alone some of the comic masterpieces this thread has produced (you know who you are). If this online community is like a little village, we all know who the village idiot is.

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@raprap,

raprap wrote:

My references indicate the flame temperature of Jet Fuel is 1080 degrees C (almost 2000 degrees F). At those temperatures steel is glowing red and loses strength pretty dramatically. Moreover, the maximum flame temperature is achieved when there is little excess oxygen available as excess oxygen adds to adiabatic heating requirements.

But what do I know, I'm just a simple (Chemical) Engineer.

Rap

We are talking about jet fuel. you must be thinking or rocket fuel or some fancy military stuff. THe planes that hit the WTC where using standard A-1 jet fuel which is distilled kerosene with the lowest and highest boiling point fractions discarded. It burns with an open air burn temp of 550 degrees F. Jet fuel is 5% more energetic than diesel fuel. they are so similar that either can run on either fuel but a lubricant would need to be added in order to use jet fuel in a diesel vehicle for an extended period(100s-1000s of miles). I doubt a chemical engineer would not know that or at least have a merck index around. but nice try.

2 Replies

Did Waterboarding lead to the death of Osama?

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