Wayne
The value of ones personal faith is independent of anyone else's belief.
ci
Hardly true; religion is learned. Others must have practiced it before anyone else did.
The emotional surrender of individuals to their religion is more similar than not no matter which god they believe in.
wayne
My post was simple, and could be understood by a 5th grader, so I'll attribute the complete tangential gobbledygook of your response to an unwillingness to cede an obvious point.
ci
@wayne,
Sure. You said,
Quote:
The value of ones personal faith is independent of anyone else's belief.
ci
I say, bull ****!
That you need to use ad hominem to attack me rather than the subject tells me you are a child.
@wayne,
You criticized me rather than what I wrote. You wrote,
Quote:
My post was simple, and could be understood by a 5th grader, so I'll attribute the complete tangential gobbledygook of your response to an unwillingness to cede an obvious point.
ci
I addressed your post with my bull ****. It's because you cannot respond intelligently to what you claimed.
Your obvious point doesn't exist. Not in English, anywhos.
Wayne
Baloney, we both know it.
You simply don't want to admit it.
It doesn't suit the picture you want to paint.
Ci
What do you mean "we both know it?" You haven't delineated an explanation for your claim that
Quote:
The value of ones personal faith is independent of anyone else's belief.
Please show proof for this statement? There's nothing for me to admit.
Wayne
I thought it was pretty simple, guess not.
If I choose to have faith in a god, the value of that faith is entirely independent of whether or not you, or anyone else gives my faith the same value.
That has nothing to do with religion, it is about personal faith.
Monetary value is not the same, it has everything to do with society placing the same value on the symbol we call money.
Ci
You still don't understand what Cyracuz wrote.
What you deem simple is based on your own conception and interpretation of what you believe, but that's all based on what you have learned from your environment. Even the language you use to describe it.
Wayne
Sure, that's true, but that isn't the point I'm trying to make.
In the end, after the struggle seeking evidence for belief, proof for God, the decision of faith is entirely personal.
People confuse faith and belief all the time, understandably.
Faith, in the pure sense, has nothing to do with any of the knowledge gained through a human existence.
Cyracuz
Faith is merely the capacity to have beliefs.
How can the personal value of a choice you make be independent of the choice?
The definition has everything to do with faith, in this case.
Atheists define god as something impossible and then discard the notion.
Theists define it as something desirable and embrace it.
Both define it for themselves according to how they want to relate to it.
Wayne
Faith is not the capacity to have beliefs, Faith is a direction of motion.
Cyracuz
I don't understand what you mean. Faith is our power to believe. It is not a matter of choice that you have to believe some things because there are issues on which you need to take a stand and facts are nowhere to be found.
Wayne
When I use the term Faith, in a spiritual sense, I refer to the unknowable God, not the creation. Faith, in this sense, is not a destination, or an understanding, it is a direction, a willingness, a choice.
Cyracuz
Hm.. if I understand you correctly I would call that a willingness to have faith in your own intuition.
I do not agree that we are not equipped to deal with infinity. It is beyond knowledge and beyond description, but it is not beyond experience. I can experience it if I let my mind expand and my "self" dissolve into the oneness. This aspect of our existence, I am sorry to say, is discredited by most modern, "rational" thinkers, since they seem to think that the most superficial levels of conscious experience, those that can be articulated, are all that matters.
Ci
No matter how you arrived at your "conclusion," you learned it from your environment. The concept, the words you use, and all the idea you obtained from your environment. God, faith, creation, mickey mouse, church, prayer, belief, sin, are all concepts you learned before you arrived at your idea of faith. Your so-called direction of faith is similar to all religious' belief.
Otherwise, you would be able to identify what the differences are between your faith and the faith of others.
Tell us; what is your direction of faith?
Wayne
To infinity and beyond
Seriously though, you are asking me to communicate my understanding without using communication tools obtained from my environment.
You are arguing my point better than I.
I really can't express my personal faith very well even with those tools.
Hmm, yep, still valuable to me.
The difference between my Faith and that of others, my Faith is my own, the Faith of others is thier own.
Wayne
I agree entirely, I like to talk about it too, it strengthens me when I run into someone like you. The experience ( I like that term, thanks) is beyond our ability to communicate fully, in our present form. That is the basis of my earlier statement. What amazes me, though, is that when we do manage to communicate some part of our experience, we find remarkable similarity, while unique. If that makes any sense.
Cyrucuz
It makes sense to me. I tend to think it is because we are all part of the very same "fundamental oneness", and of this experience, the part I identify with as "me" is merely a small fraction. Within this fraction is where all the differences between us lie, but once we transcend that we are no longer separate and will experience the same because there is only this oneness of infinite/undivided reality.
But again, I rely on your experience of this in communicating these notions, because I can never communicate it fully, only give enough clues that you are reminded of your own experience, which is the same as mine once we "think past" our "selves".
Wayne
As any 5th grader would know, that post referred to a previous post, which was a statement on the personal nature of the value of Faith.
Either you're an Idiot or an Asshole. Either way, I can see that you are a waste of my time.
Your previous statement, “The value of ones personal faith is independent of anyone else's belief.”
ci
I still say, bull ****! (or bull pucky!) You're trying to identify the value of your personal faith as unique and independent from everybody else's. No proof, no evidence, and just your claim. You haven't proven your original statement. I understand the English language pretty good, thank you, and it's beyond the fifth grade level!
