Reasons for God...

Where's any ad hominem in my response? Did you think I was going to follow you merrily off track?
Your response did not address my statement. You offered some tangential gobbledygook about religion and atheism to derail the point. Now you're upset because you got called on it.

Now that you've addressed my point, your' response;


I say proves my point.

You criticized me rather than what I wrote. You wrote,

I addressed your post with my bull ****. It's because you cannot respond intelligently to what you claimed.

Your obvious point doesn't exist. Not in English, anywhos.

Baloney, we both know it.
You simply don't want to admit it.
It doesn't suit the picture you want to paint.

What do you mean "we both know it?" You haven't delineated an explanation for your claim that

Please show proof for this statement? There's nothing for me to admit.

This isn't all true. Even if I am the only one to come up with a certain idea, every bit of knowledge I put into it comes from somewhere else; from my interaction with my environment. And the skill I use in conjuring up my idea is to a large extent taught to me by others. None of us are alone, and no one accomplishes anything all by themselves, even though they may think they do.

Cyracuz, Thank you!

I don't see how evolution theory and a sense of cosmic oneness (god) are mutually exclusive. It's not either or, and my horizon has broadened considerably from embracing both.

But I think it is likely that evolution theory will be modified in the years to come as a result of work done in the area of unified field theory and other areas of scientific and philosophic endeavor.

"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants."
-- Sir Isaac Newton

I thought it was pretty simple, guess not.
If I choose to have faith in a god, the value of that faith is entirely independent of whether or not you, or anyone else gives my faith the same value.
That has nothing to do with religion, it is about personal faith.
Monetary value is not the same, it has everything to do with society placing the same value on the symbol we call money.

You still don't understand what Cyracuz wrote.

What you deem simple is based on your own conception and interpretation of what you believe, but that's all based on what you have learned from your environment. Even the language you use to describe it.

Don't confuse definitions of god, with faith in God.
My decision to have, or not have, faith in God, and the personal value of that decision, is entirely independent.
Faith and belief are 2 different concepts.

Sure, that's true, but that isn't the point I'm trying to make.
In the end, after the struggle seeking evidence for belief, proof for God, the decision of faith is entirely personal.
People confuse faith and belief all the time, understandably.
Faith, in the pure sense, has nothing to do with any of the knowledge gained through a human existence.

Faith is merely the capacity to have beliefs.
How can the personal value of a choice you make be independent of the choice?
The definition has everything to do with faith, in this case.
Atheists define god as something impossible and then discard the notion.
Theists define it as something desirable and embrace it.
Both define it for themselves according to how they want to relate to it.

That is what I'm saying.
Humans seek to define, it's in our nature.
Ask yourself, who am I to define God?
When I get up in the morning, the decision of Faith, is mine and mine alone, even God cannot make that decision for me.
Faith is not the capacity to have beliefs, Faith is a direction of motion.

I don't understand what you mean. Faith is our power to believe. It is not a matter of choice that you have to believe some things because there are issues on which you need to take a stand and facts are nowhere to be found.

That's a problem with the word Faith, linguistically means one thing, spiritually it means something I can't describe.
Let me try another way. Let's take the knowledge you were talking about earlier, I have no knowledge of God, all my knowledge is of God's creation.
We can't really separate ourselves from that. We are not equipped to deal with infinity, or the lack of it for that matter.
When I use the term Faith, in a spiritual sense, I refer to the unknowable God, not the creation. Faith, in this sense, is not a destination, or an understanding, it is a direction, a willingness, a choice.

Hm.. if I understand you correctly I would call that a willingness to have faith in your own intuition.
I do not agree that we are not equipped to deal with infinity. It is beyond knowledge and beyond description, but it is not beyond experience. I can experience it if I let my mind expand and my "self" dissolve into the oneness. This aspect of our existence, I am sorry to say, is discredited by most modern, "rational" thinkers, since they seem to think that the most superficial levels of conscious experience, those that can be articulated, are all that matters.

No matter how you arrived at your "conclusion," you learned it from your environment. The concept, the words you use, and all the idea you obtained from your environment. God, faith, creation, mickey mouse, church, prayer, belief, sin, are all concepts you learned before you arrived at your idea of faith. Your so-called direction of faith is similar to all religious' belief.

Otherwise, you would be able to identify what the differences are between your faith and the faith of others.

Tell us; what is your direction of faith?

I understand what you're saying, and I will need to do some thinking on the experience of infinity.
My first thought is that your experience of infinity is finite. But I don't think that means you aren't experiencing infinity. In fact, faith would tell me that you're experience of infinity is infinite.
I would agree that intuition is the best word in this case. Words are a real handicap in discussions at this level.
I think that experience also is the best word for our relationship with infinity.
Indeed, I might revise my description of Faith as a direction to Faith as an experience.

I can relate to faith as an experience. I like to talk about the concept of god, but as you mentioned, it is beyond description. Not because we cannot experience it, but because everything we can think or say about it after the experience itself is incomplete and requires a never ending string of modifications.