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Tue 5 Apr, 2011 01:24 am
The school informed that they have caned my son this morning (Tuesday) after the deed been done. The form teacher tells me my son has hit a girl and pulled her hair on Friday.
My son has ADD (attention deficit disorder), he tends to be impatient n implusive. When I ask my son what happen when he came home. He told me that the girl cut queque, he just wanted to stop her.
I do not approve my son action and thinks he should be disciplined. The question is
(1) Is corporal punishment necessary and effective on an ADD child?
(2) Why was the parents not informed of the incident before the punishment is meted out? (I would have want to talk it over with my son before punishment)
(3) Now the school want me to sign papers to say that I know about the punishment and agree to it. Should I sign?
Thanks in advance for any advise on how to handle this suituation.
No i do not think you should sign. However I also think you should accept the punishment meted out even though you do not agree.
Lots of kids, me included, got the strap or cane at school in the past and it never hurt most of us to get a bit of a shock.
Your son may or may not benefit from this but he needs to realise if his behavior is unacceptable then some form of punishment may be on the cards again.
His actions were after all a physical assult on the girl and It would not be a big stretch to imagine the girls parents sueing for damages. You have tried to justify his actions "because she cut in front of me" but that does not excuse a physical assult. Would you assult an adult if they cut in front of you?
Wait and see if it helps your son to make good decisions in the future or not.
Whatever you decide to do you should inform the school of your decisions and the reason why you have decided that.
I agree with DP on about everything here, although i have reservations about whether or not the school has any right to use corporal punishment. That they might physically restrain your son if necessary seems reasonable to me, but i don't think they should be caning anyone.
I definitely agree with DP that you should not sign any such document. Although you might acquiesce in the use of such punishment, you shouldn't sign if you don't believe it is right--and if the school attempts to insist, they are bullying you.
@Setanta,
I'd agree as well. Question - where do you live? That also might let us know what is legally allowed in a school. I do not believe for instance where I live that corporal punishment is allowed in the public schools, or at the very least considered acceptable punishment.
I do agree that your son should be punished, but hitting the child seems like calling the kettle black. I mean he isn't supposed hit some one else for any reason, but the school can hit him? Doesn't seem to be teaching an appropriate lesson.
I'd also meet with the appropriate individuals at the school and discuss with them what is an appropriate punishment for your son and what works best with him. My children's school actually provides a questionaire item prior to the beginning of the school year and one of the questions is - what sort of punishment is effective for your child.
@MommyAnt,
MommyAnt wrote:(1) Is corporal punishment necessary and effective on an ADD child?
You tell us.
MommyAnt wrote:(2) Why was the parents not informed of the incident before the punishment is meted out? (I would have want to talk it over with my son before punishment)
Could be school policy. Could be an impetuous teacher. Could be a lot of things we don't know.
MommyAnt wrote:(3) Now the school want me to sign papers to say that I know about the punishment and agree to it. Should I sign?
That depends. Do you agree to it?
@joefromchicago,
Quote:Could be an impetuous teacher
I higly doubt that the incident was on Friday the punishment was given on Tuesday,
I'm betting the OP is Au based deduced from the language op used (Form teacher) and the post time (just after school in Aust). I could easily be wrong about that.
I think theres more to this than even the OP knows about yet. Maybe the kid was supposed to deliver a letter to mum and forgot/lost it.
It would be wise to consult with the school.
In Australia, corporal punishment is banned by law in all schools in the Australian Capital Territory,[36] New South Wales,[37] and Tasmania.[38]
In Victoria, it is banned in government schools but not in private schools. The state government currently has made its removal a condition of school registration.[39]
Corporal punishment is banned in government schools under ministerial guidelines or local educational policy, but is lawful in private schools, in Western Australia,[40] Queensland[41] and South Australia.
In the Northern Territory there is currently no legal prohibition
@dadpad,
Jus for your info. I am from Singapore.
The canning has ALREADY BEEN DONE, when they call me, I have NO CHOICE in agreeing or disagreeing.
I do not justify my son action and I agree he should be punished.
I just need/want to know before they cane him, is it too much to ask? A phone call would be good enough, the school/form teacher has my number and it is on 24/7.
Btw I been told that corporal punishment may not be effective on ADD kids especially one with high IQ, and my son fall in that catergory. As someone mentioned he may equate it with "I can use violent to solve problem".
And corporal punishment must go will counselling to be of any use, plus it may hurt my son's self esteem. It really raise a lot of ????.
I really hope someone can tell me what's my right are. Can I demand that the school inform me before punishment is meted out?
I wish I could have spoken to my son before/after the canning and not left hanging for hours (waiting for him to come home from school) after the phone call wondering how he is after the punishment.
Anxious Mommy
@MommyAnt,
Quote:I really hope someone can tell me what's my right are. Can I demand that the school inform me before punishment is meted out?
Search the internet for "corporal punishment singapore" to get some idea of your rights in regard to this.
Quote:I been told that corporal punishment may not be effective on ADD kids especially one with high IQ, and my son fall in that catergory.
A lot of kids are misdiagnosed with ADD. Many parents find improvement in their child behavior by eliminating certain preservatives colouring and flavorings from food and structured/consistent discipline combined with love and attention at home.
I'm not questioning your sons diagnosis just ensuring you are informed.
Quote:As someone mentioned he may equate it with "I can use violent to solve problem".
I agree with that to an extent. If this type of punishment were to be meted out on a regular basis It may certainly have that effect. My opinion is however that once is probably not going to be a major problem.
Talk with the schools headmaster. State that you disagree with this type of punishment and the reasons why you disagree. Tell them want to be informed if it is being considered in the future.
Do not sign any documents relating to the recent event on the basis that you did not agree and were not informed proir. If corporal punishment of this nature were unavoidable it may be wise to have a friend or guardian present to ensure any pubishment does not go too far. I'd suggest that this not be a parent.
I think you are being very reasonable in the circumstances.
Would the threat of changing schools have any effect on the schools attitude?
I found this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore
You should make a more thorough internet search and look at several autorative sites. be aware you may come across some pornografic sites if you are not carefull about the links you use. (google safe search should protect you)
excerpt from the above link
Quote:Caning is also used as a form of corporal punishment in primary and, especially, secondary schools, and also in one or two post-secondary colleges, to maintain strict discipline in school. This is applicable only to male students: it is illegal to cane girls. The punishment is administered formally along traditional British lines, typically in the form of a predetermined number of vigorous cuts across the seat of the student's trousers as he bends over a desk or chair.
The Ministry of Education encourages schools to punish boys by caning for serious offences such as fighting, smoking, cheating, gangsterism, vandalism, defiance and truancy.[24] Students may also be caned for repeated cases of more minor offences, such as being late repeatedly in a term. The punishment may be administered only by the Principal or Vice-Principal, or by a specially designated and trained Discipline Master. At most schools, caning comes after detention but before suspension in the hierarchy of penalties.[25] Some schools use a demerit points system, whereby students receive a mandatory caning after accumulating a certain number of demerit points for a wide range of offences.[25]
Under Ministry regulations, the punishment should not exceed a maximum of 6 strokes, and can only be administered on the palms or buttocks using a light rattan cane of about 4 feet long.[26] However, the majority of the canings range from one to three very hard strokes, applied to the seat of the boy's trousers or shorts.[25]
Canings in schools may be classified as:
* Private caning: Boy is caned in the principal's office
* Class caning: Boy is caned in front of his class
* Public caning: Boy is caned on stage during assembly in front of the whole school population, to serve as a warning to potential offenders as well as to shame the student. It is usually reserved for serious offences committed like fighting, smoking, vandalism.
School caning is a solemn and formal ceremory. Before the caning, the Discipline Master usually explains the student's offence to the audience.
................. i cut some out here.......
The boy will be caned across his buttocks, according to the number of strokes prescribed. He will normally experience superficial bruises and weals for some days after the punishment.[27]
Certain schools have special practices for caning, such as making the student change into PE attire for the punishment. Some schools require the student to read out a public apology before receiving his strokes.
Boys of any age from 6 to 19 may be caned, but the majority of canings are of secondary school students aged 14–16 inclusive.[25] The Ministry of Education recommends that the student receive counselling before and/or after his caning.
Routine school canings are naturally not normally publicised, so cases only get reported in the press in rare special cases
@dadpad,
I have also come across what u post in my search for answer, so far none of the article I found mention anything about the right of the school or the right of the parent in this matter or is rather vague about it.
The Principal insist that the school has the right to mete out punishment before informing the parent and when I request to be informed before such punishment be given, the P say the school cannot agree/promise such thing.
I have actually written to MOE (Ministry of Education), not in detail but just a query as to whether I can ask/demand that the school inform me in advance before any form of Corporal Punishment be meted out on my son. But I am not hopeful of a reply any time soon or even any useful one at that ( they will probably be vague too).
PS. Yes, a little care in his diet (caffeine free etc) and more attention and love help (u need to talk slow and low, they r sensitive to your tone and emotion), ADD kids are the same as all kids in tend of need of attention and love, just that they tend to "over react" or their reaction can be a little "extreme" as compare to normal kids at time.
@MommyAnt,
There may be other posters in singapore who may be able to provide more specific information for you so keep your eye on this thread but the information may not be timely for you.
Perhaps you shoud consult a lawyer in Singapore, just to see how the law applies in your situation.
There are many thread and posts about ADD here. look through the parenting and child care forum.
Go to the new posts page and type "parenting and child care" into the search box. There are some 40 pages of topics But I know that at least 1 regular poster here has a child with ADD type behavior.
I wish you and your son strength and happiness.
@dadpad,
Thank you dadpad. I will go search for the pages u mentioned.
You have been very helpful.
I am working with my friends who r educators on this matter. I do not wish to make this into a law case. I just cannot be at peace at the idea that the school can mete out corporal punishment without informing the parent in advance.
The basic principles I imposed to my children regarding school were:
School rules must be respected!
School work must be carried out!
But...
I could write a collection of articles about my son’s behavior at school. During the classes he would be playing and laughing, between classes, he would often fight.
The fact that he was playing during the class, did not disrupt his studying, he was able to play and listen simultaneously, but it would bother with his schoolmates. I would beg, try to persuade, explain why he should not behave like that, he would be calm for a while, but then continue as usual. I went to school willingly and by invitation, consulted educators, psychologists, teachers ...
The general opinion was that the work in the classroom could not fully animate him, so he filled rest of the time with games. Teachers, indeed, could not do much about it. In the classroom with 30 pupils with different abilities, classes had to be adjusted for the average, for very good and very bad pupils there was not time.
He did not talk much and was unable to verbally oppose the children’s disputes, so he faugh them. It was his way of resolving conflicts. Of course, a fight would only further complicate the situation and would involve parents and teachers. Even today I cannot understand why he was behaving like that, there was not any form of aggressiveness in our family, and the children were not physically punished, they were rarely punished in any ways.
I would explain him that any disagreement could not be resolved by fighting, would go again to school by invitation and voluntarily, but there was no change. I really felt helpless. Then he began to practice karate fights, he had several important results in competitions, and a few bruises and scratches on his face after the fight.
By the end of primary school he stopped fighting, but he still found it hard to tolerate insults and dirty words, that the children of that age usually say unaware of their meaning. At the second year of high school, there was a big change: he became insensitive to any insult and bad behavior against him, as if he was not concerned.
In my experience, disciplinary penalties have poor results. It is needed the cooperation of parents and teachers, many conversations with the child, even more patience to teach the child about acceptable limits of behavior, and that their behavior should not be a threat to anyone. As you might conclude, it takes a lot of time, too.
@znljubica,
You could almost be describing my son... and I have the same rules as you ... so I can only hope that he will be lucky in life and be able to meet good teachers/principal who r patient and willing to invest energy and time to help me guide him on the right path.
@MommyAnt,
I suggest you talk with the teacher and principal to work out a viable solution to all in the future. Where caning is an acceptable punishment in your school system, you need to be able to work around it. Like you said, you would want to be notified prior - could you meet and ask if this is possible? Of course you want to have as a good relationship as possible with the school as this is best for you and your child.
@Linkat,
I have had a sit down meeting with the P & VP of the school.
I request that should such incident ever happen again, I wish/need to be inform in advance, a phone call would be good enough (I stay within walking distance [<10min] to the school).
The P's stance is quite firm, he say the school has the right to punish before informing and they cannot/willnot promise to call in advance.
That is why I feel so upset.
@MommyAnt,
Sorry about that - is there a medical person that has diagnosed your child's condition? Could they be a voice to help support your position?
A violent response to violence... Dumb.
I got the strap in school, back in the day, a teacher was showing off her new weapon of choice and picked a few select students to demonstrate on. I had'nt done anything to deserve it. It only made me angry and didn't make me respect my elders or their rules at all. It backfired. Corporal punishment was banned shortly after.
I'd find another school, or perhaps a tutor for home schooling if this is endemic of the schools in your area. Children don't need to be at the mercy of an adult. Some teachers, as I sadly found out, are masochists and can't control their rage.
@Ceili,
Spunky kid that you are, I'd ve thought you'd have decked her, Ceili.
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