Can religious beliefs be destroyed by capitalism?

First read the Acts of the Apostles.

It's pretty evident that the early church was more commune than cathedral. It would be fun to try and figure out when the believers switched from bringing in sheaves to stacking up the tithes.

Joe

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metaethics, I don't think you understand Capitalism. Or perhaps you are just looking at this from a different angle. In a Capitalist system; one moves up the social latter by becoming ever more reliant oneself. The more "into it" one becomes; the more likely he is to find conflicts with any religion. Hence, there is a natural tendency to become more reliant on oneself and consequently less reliant on religion. Since most people naturally aspire to succeed in one way or another, and capitalism gives them the opportunity to do so without propping up any religious institution (or any societal institution for that matter), it may very well destroy religious foundations. I think this is what Individual was getting at.
Regardless of whether Capitalism is good or bad; these effects will likely remain the same. Whether Capitalism is good or bad; is a matter for another thread. It is a subject I'd love to discuss if you are interested.

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OCCOM, this one is specially cooked for you...

Is Capitalism Good or Bad?

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

In a Capitalist system; one moves up the social latter by becoming ever more reliant oneself. The more "into it" one becomes; the more likely he is to find conflicts with any religion. Hence, there is a natural tendency to become more reliant on oneself and consequently less reliant on religion.

As an MBA and an author of books and articles on business ethics and management, I understand and agree on capitalism in the way you do.

As a philosophical practitioner and moral counselor, however, it concerns me that, whether it's confidence in oneself or that in money, such reliance on something other than what anyone calls or means 'god' (in his or her own definition) can be a threat to one's belief system.

I really like to see if everybody else sees religion and capitalism as an apple and an orange, and also whether it is a structure or a form in strictly philosophical sense, if that helps us have a meaningful discussion.

Otherwise, I would return to the former state of MBA and talk far more lightly about anything (what a wonderful thought!).

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I invite you to join us on the tangent by clicking here: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=507126#507126

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Individual wrote:

Do you think that religion can, in any possible way, be destroyed by capitalism or will you stick to the idea that a system with a foundation cannot be broken by one without?

It is possible in a way communism (without moral foundations) replaced religion in some societies, without any value judgment on communism itself for the sake of discussion.

It is possible because confidence in oneself or in money can be taught as the philosophy of finance or foundation of management, and business people are too busy to think anything else, capitalism may acquire a new concept that could substitute a foundation that a religion is thought to have.

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I have so much trouble understanding what you mean...

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What is that you don't understand?

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It is possible because capitalism may acquire a new virtue (reliance in oneself or money) that could substitute a concept of foundation that a religion would rather find in God.

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Oh...I'm going to get some sleep and then come back to this...I'm getting all dyslexic.

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Good night.

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I agree completely that communism has indeed replaced religion in some societies By law, in fact, in the former Soviet Union. Any system that demands loyalty and reduces ones free will is in competition with religion.

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generally
Generally a religious hierarchy or cult deconstructed resembles a greater capitalistic tendency, and the total integration of a capitalist society helps further that power struggle (in regards to communism, or better yet, social Leninism or, not to be associated with either, Stalinism any provocation with a religious group is easily remedied by replacing it with something, so theoretically it isn't impossible to "destroy" a religious base, you could do it with anything again Stalinism almost eradicated Orthodoxy.)

Read Religion and the Rise of Capitalism by RH Tawney

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Re: generally

TUITBW wrote:

Generally a religious hierarchy or cult deconstructed resembles a greater capitalistic tendency, and the total integration of a capitalist society helps further that power struggle (in regards to communism, or better yet, social Leninism or, not to be associated with either, Stalinism any provocation with a religious group is easily remedied by replacing it with something, so theoretically it isn't impossible to "destroy" a religious base, you could do it with anything again Stalinism almost eradicated Orthodoxy.)

Read Religion and the Rise of Capitalism by RH Tawney

Huh????

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Re: generally

TUITBW wrote:

Generally a religious hierarchy or cult deconstructed resembles a greater capitalistic tendency, and the total integration of a capitalist society helps further that power struggle (in regards to communism, or better yet, social Leninism or, not to be associated with either, Stalinism any provocation with a religious group is easily remedied by replacing it with something, so theoretically it isn't impossible to "destroy" a religious base, you could do it with anything again Stalinism almost eradicated Orthodoxy.)

Hmmm? Let "A" denote religion, "B" capitalism, "C" communism (or socialism or social Lenism), then,

> Generally "A" resembles "B."
> Any "A" is easily remedied by replacing it with "C."
> Therefore "A" is replaceable...?

Ah, so?

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if you could see it , occom bill , id be bowing down to you ; well said . religious beleifs should coincide with capitalism and if they dont thenthey are morally unconcienable (pardon the misspelling)because anything that obstructs freedom is evil , and i dont mean that in a stupid way , anything that goes against survival is evil and that includes restriction of freedom .

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and again well said metaethics! religion has lost its necessity .

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

I agree completely that communism has indeed replaced religion in some societies By law, in fact, in the former Soviet Union. Any system that demands loyalty and reduces ones free will is in competition with religion.

By law - which law Bill ?

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Hello.

Most people define capitalism in a logistical sense, they forget that it's defined by it's values, and that can be described as "man as self interested and the modern adjunct of entitled to consumer sovereignty".

I believe the The Warning to Humanity Statement 1992 and the GEO-3 report of 2002 alert us to the possibility that capitalism will collapse at current rates in about 25-40yrs.

Capitalism needs two types of support, it needs a functional environment, replete with high grade raw materials{plenty and easy to extract}...it also needs psychological support.
As we attempt the foolishness of Globalization{without regard to the scientific constraint of the eco-footprint}, we squeeze the system to breaking point, this will diminish psychological support once enough people are aware that our values are threatening our life support system{the biosphere}.

IMO, we need to replace the underlying values to something along these lines...."man as steward of the biosphere, entitled to no more than the eco-footprint will allow+ concern for all members of society regardless of age or socio-economic status"

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So WTF is going on here?
Has anyone figured out that values determine actions, and capitalism has a value base which motivates behaviour?

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Can religious beliefs be destroyed by capitalism?

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