Can religious beliefs be destroyed by capitalism?

It's an interesting question. I don't think I know enough about either capitalism or religion to answer it definitively (could anybody?). But, I think that if the belief is strong enough, it should prevail over capitalism - or at least coincide with it. A question: are there any religions that can not coincide peacefully with capitalism?

Hmmm - I think I could run you a good argument on that! I shall have to marshall my forces and return. I have been sleeping, and am not fuly awake. However, if you look at it, religion HAS become much less important in highly developed capitalist countries - except, possibly, for the USA - which is an oddity in this respect...and I think there is reason for this. I'll be back...

Re: Can religious beliefs be destroyed by capitalism?

I sincerely hope so. Deep down, I'd think most everyone could be motivated by the almighty dollar. I've seen scarce few Religious figureheads that weren't. Why shouldn't the common man be motivated the same way? You may have just stumbled upon the path to world peace.

You have this same exact topic listed in two places.

In the other thread I offered my opinion:

One can only hope!

For some religions the foundation of religious beliefs might be the belief in the design of this world, the belief in a form rather than a structure. By the integration of capitalism into 'their' belief system, capitalism without such a grand design might fall under the same old design that its structure can only follow.

Or maybe capitalism could replace some religions and cultist beliefs as long as they don't project such a fomal plan, i.e., the belief in a wrong 'god' or the set of standards based on mere presumption of something that happens more by accident or arbitration than by design.

Shall we pick the right one to attack, or pick the wrong ones and see the capitalism destroyed instead?

Back in the days of the Greek empire, most religions existed for the sole purpose of raising money for its own figurehead while the followers genuinely believed in the teachings. Is it also possible that capitalist regimes can go astray and create unstoppable beliefs that border on religion?

That would make you astray from your original question. In order to destroy religions of your concern, because you assume they are corrupt, capitalism that replaces the religions must be valid and sound, or at least not as fallible as you'd claim religions are. No two negative premises (religions, capitalism in your own negative sentences) promise a positively good social structure (It still lacks "form" though).

Metaethics, I had to read your reply a few times through to understand what you meant. Do you think that in order for a capitalist regime to work it must be better and clearer than the religion that it is replacing? If so, I would strongly disagree and say that it only has to appear to make more sense or be more practical.

"apples & oranges"
Individual:

It's simple - it's one of logical fallacies in syllogism. It is illogical to build a positive conclusion from two negative premises. Bad religions can be replaced by a corrupt capitalism but that won't make a good society.

Besides, since your objective as I see in your question is to destroy religions, why do you have to pick flawed capitalism if your cause is to build a better society with brand new foundations?

And more: capitalism does not have its own moral foundations but only shares them with the society's religions, customs or norms. Again, capitalism is a structure not based on its own foundation - ideal 'form' or the object, such as 'god' of every religion. If capitalism does not indeed have such foundations, how do you integrate something without a foundation into something else in order to replace its foundations?

That made me think: although you could attack some corrupt schemes (some cultist belief systems) with a healthy capitalism in order to destroy their 'false' foundations, the way you do so could be another example of logical fallacies. That could be as bad as replacing Christianity with communism, with which Karl Marx intended to have no moral foundations.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that religions should continue to exist but I have not set out to "destroy" religion in any way. I am merely posing a question.
Also, capitalism cannot be flawed in any way. There are no substantial beliefs that can be any more wrong than religion is, in fact, there are no beliefs at all. It's just a system of acquiring goods or money. And if it could be flawed, I'm sure that would depend entirely on your point of view.
And who are you to decide what cults (from which all religions are started) are corrupt or have false foundations?

I could be completely misinterpreting what you are saying just as you misunderstood what I wrote. We need to try to communicate better...

Hi,

I never misunderstood you. It's what you wrote in the first place: Can religious beliefs be destroyed by capitalism? It does not matter if its you or I or we who tries to do so, but I wrote 'you' without any value judgment on you.

Your style can be sometimes very poetic and I like it - which is not what I agree or disagree. It's about the use of logic and the meaning of words that need to be valid and sound, as long as the posts here are about philosophical thinking and writing.

By the way, capitalism can be flawed if the concept of money is turned from a means to an objective that would substitute a sort of 'virtue' or a set of foundations. As a moral counselor, I mean moral foundations by those words.

Besides, if you 'agree' that there are no beliefs at all in capitalism but it's just a system of acquiring goods or money without a foundation, how can you (or I or we) replace or destroy the foundations of religions?

I'm talking about apples and oranges, you know.

Yes, and thanks for calling my writing poetic. While poetic writing isn't always practical in an argument it's a great pleasure to hear someone tell me that.

I don't believe that capitalism can have 'beliefs', perhaps it can have goals and a strict formula for success... But that's not to say that religious fanatics cannot be sidetracked or completely derailed by the allure of money.

re: apples and oranges
Lovely style indeed. I might have meant 'quasi-apple' by calling some religious beliefs 'cultist' - I must apologize for the use of weak analogy and hostile humor if anyone finds them with bad intentions.

I also see that capitalism can be a great threat as a 'quasi-orange' - powerful enough to sidetrack or derail the foundations of some religious beliefs, whether those apples are complete or half, good, healthy or wormy.

If a system has a belief beyond its structure, such a belief or the foundation of it needs at least to be moral. It's threatening if love of money becomes the foundation that can sweep all other acts of love.

True, but in order to obtain money one must be educated. Therefore, a love of money cannot wipe out a love of education. When you think about it, religion is so frail that it will eventually disappear without much outside stimulation. Capitalism, education, hypocrisy, governmental intervention, and impracticality can all knock religion off balance.
I suppose the real question is: Why is it taking so long? Is man's need for god really that great?

You started this. Please do not scatter your words and interests all of the sudden.

The focus was on capitalism as a system or a structure - why do you equate capitalism with education, hypocrisy and govermental intervention in one sentence at this point? Are they all 'a structure with a possibility of having a belif as its foundation'? No more oranges, please.

Also, I'd never reinterpret your original question 'Can religious beliefs be destroyed by capitalism?' as 'Is man's need for god really that great?' without adding my own take on god and capitalism. With or without intention you imply or redefine religious belief as a mere matter of man's necessity and capitalism as something already better than religious systems.

If you realized that your real question was different from the former, please close this thread and start anew.

Sorry, I thought that everyone liked the taste of orange juice.

We're severely off-track here... Do you think that religion can, in any possible way, be destroyed by capitalism or will you stick to the idea that a system with a foundation cannot be broken by one without?