Explaining obama's intentions with BAT

David falls for another conspiracy theory.
I hadn't realized how much sheer loopiness there was on the gun fringe.
And of course the Mexican government which has tracked the guns too and is really really pissed at us for making them so readily available to the cartels is in on it. And all those gun shops just over the border doing land office business to Mexican straw buyers are just government fronts too.

Come off it, David.

Well, this one is simple & plausible.
Obama hates guns n their owners.
Gun control has not been doing at all well, of late.
He wants to rescue it.




Referring to the BAT's promotion of illegal activities,
as their agents have testified to, right Jack ??




No, President King did not say that,
but if those drug cartels had not gotten the guns from us,
thay 'd have bawt them elsewhere; money has a certain
versatility about it. We might as well keep the cash in America.








Yes, de facto, thay are,
with BAT telling them to proceed with the sales,
that 's what it amounts to.





David

Yeah, definitely a conspiracy theory. David, it's obvious what it is. You and zealots like you enable gun dealers to give the Mexican drug cartels all the firepower they need to destroy the social structure of northern Mexico. You say they can get guns anywhere, but the documentary record shows they're buying them from "legal" dealers in the US. Why go elsewhere far more expensively and arduously when you can get them with a pleasant afternoon's drive across the border to Texas? The gun infrastructure so enabled by the NRA, and you, is killing people wholesale in Mexico. There's no secret governmental plot--it's pure free-market drug violence.

I guess that the reason that obama's attorney general,
Holder told Congress yesterday that he 's referring it
to the Justice Dept.'s Inspector General's office,
cutting off the scandal low and early
so that it will not burgeon like Watergate did.

Geee, the House is back in Republican hands again.
If obama is implicated in this scandal,
in violation of gun control statutes,
I imagine that another Impeachment is in order, right, Jack ???



I am not in charge of BAT.
It does not take orders from ME.
The gunrunning into Mexico had its origin in the obama administration.
THAY gave the orders to the underlings; (so thay said).



OF COURSE! How coud thay NOT???
Thay are up to their teeth in drug money.




BECAUSE of the illegal gunrunning obama scandal.




Right, either that or begin a Mexican gun industry.
Guns r not hard to make, including fully automatic weapons, like AK 47.





Will u explain that to Eric HOlder and his I.G. ??

Will this turn out to be like the stained Blue dress ??

WHATAYATHINK, Jack ?



David

The question is, David, why you remain so eager to promote the sales of thousands of guns to people you KNOW are going to use those weapons to kill police, judges, prosecutors, federales, and innocent people who just happen to get in the narcotraficantes' way.

I believe that "THE question" as u put it,
will prove to be the forthcoming obama scandal
from statutory violations resulting from a conspiracy
that has been attested to by BAT agents who have
complained of having been ORDERED from on high,
to tell legal gun merchants to violate federal law; Eric Holder
seems to think so. I guess that counts for something.
We shall see what we shall see.

U mildly exaggerate my position.
I approve of laissez faire free trade in guns in America.

I do not "promote" the sale of guns to the Mexicans
any more than I "promote" the sale of shoes to the Mexicans.
There is a minor difference.

Incidentally, the Mexicans have NO RIGHTS
under the US Constitution, including its 2nd Amendment.





David

CBS News

The U.S. ambassador to Mexico, Carlos Pascual,
has resigned under pressure.



In recent weeks, Mexico's President Felipe Calderon has said
in public he doesn't trust Pascual (seen at left). Several sources
close to diplomatic circles inside Mexico tell CBS News that from
Mexico's viewpoint, the ATF "gunwalking" scandal was the final straw
in a series of controversies.

First, Pascual has been dating the daughter of a mistrusted
and alleged cartel-linked opposition legislator.

Second, Pascual's critical views of Mexico in secret U.S. diplomatic
cables were leaked on WikiLeaks several weeks ago. In one cable,
Pascual said Mexico had turned a blind eye to U.S. leads on how
to capture drug lords.

More recently, Mexico has demanded information from the U.S.
on the ATF controversy revealed by CBS News, in which ATF agents
allegedly allowed thousands of weapons to cross the border, supposedly
in a failed attempt to gain intelligence to take down a major drug cartel.
Some Mexican legislators have publicly said ATF agents who crafted
and carried out the strategy could be extradited to Mexico and arrested.
The legislators quote ATF agent John Dodson, as interviewed in our report.

Published reports, including one in the Miami Herald, quote the
White House as recently having said U.S. officials thought the tiffs
would blow over.

(CBS News) WASHINGTON -
South of El Paso, Texas, on Mexico's side of the border,
lies Juarez - the most dangerous city in the world.
CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports
ATF Special Agent Rene Jaquez has been stationed there for
the past year, trying to keep U.S. guns from being trafficked into Mexico.


"That's what we do as an agency," Jaquez said.
"ATF's primary mission is to make sure
that we curtail gun trafficking."

Video: Mexico assignment "most dangerous in the world"

Video: ATF agent describes dangers of "gunwalking"


That's why Jaquez tells CBS News he was so alarmed to hear
his own agency may have done the opposite: encouraged U.S. gun dealers
to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexico's drug cartels.

Apparently, ATF hoped that letting weapons "walk" onto the
street - to see where they'd end up - would help them
take down a cartel.


Gunrunning scandal uncovered at the ATF


Jaquez is so opposed to the strategy, he's speaking out.
"You don't let guns walk. I've never let a gun walk."

Read Agent Jaquez's most recent job performance evaluation
summary from ATF management.



Yet ATF agents told us they were ordered to let thousands of weapons walk.
Two of them, assault rifles, were later found at the murder scene
of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in Arizona last December.

Another gunrunning suspect under ATF surveillance was linked
to the shooting of Customs Agent Jaime Zapata
and sources say many more "walked" weapons turned up at
Mexican crime scenes.


Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

Jaquez said, "I think this incidence is probably one of the darkest days in ATF's history."


But ATF wasn't working alone on the case known as "Fast and Furious."
Documents show ATF had conference calls with "DHS"
(Homeland Security). "USMS" (U.S. Marshals) and DEA. An "ICE," or
Customs agent, was on ATF's Fast and Furious team. They were
advised by an "AUSA," or Assistant U.S. Attorney under the
Justice Department.


AK 47s vs. bean bags in border drug war


Justice Department head Eric Holder said the inspector general is investigating.
"The aim of the ATF is to try to stop the flow of guns. I think they
do a good job in that regard. Questions have been raised by ATF
agents about the way in which some of these operations have
been conducted. I think those questions have to be taken seriously,
and on that basis, I've asked the inspector general to look at it."


Holder: Gunwalking is wrong


Jaquez is second sitting ATF agent to come forward and
speak out to CBS News on the controversy.


Jaquez says one of the most difficult things for him is believing
that his own agency inadvertently put innocent lives at risk.
Jaquez has family - uncles, aunts, father and sister - living in Mexico.
"Any one of us could have been shot with one of those guns."


Video: NRA members "outraged" over "gunwalking" reports

Jaquez says he's left wondering whether runaway violence in Mexico
can be partly blamed on the agency tasked with stopping it.

Can you acknowledge that there are a number of western style democracies that operate reasonably satisfactorily and use gun licencing?

No; I 'd rather not because that woud put the cart before the horse,
inverting & reversing the relationship between the citizens as owners (and creators of government)
and their lowlife employee: government.

It is imperative that we keep foremost in mind
that government is our hired security force
and IT works for us. WE do not work for IT
and we are supposed to possess the means to discharge it.

It is a question of SOVEREIGNTY,
which is in the CITIZENS, not in government,
since we threw out the King of England.

To that we add the matter of DISCRIMINATION,
as distinct from equal protection of the laws.

Any person has as much right to defend his life
as anyone else (not just jewelers, bank messengers and police).


People who have proven to be intolerably dangerous
shoud be isolated and removed from contact
with the decent people (preferably not on the North American Continent).





David

If you cannot acknowledge real and physical evidence that is placed before you I doubt your capacity to make informed decisions on this issue.

I question your personal ability to see actual real time evidence and take that into account in your decision making.

I personally live in a society that embraces gun licencng and limited control over the types of guns people are able to use and admittedly with only third hand evidece I would much prefer to live here then in your society.

The evidence is before you.