military action against Libya

a fact check of Obama's assertions have him looking bad...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110329/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_libya_fact_check

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Who are these rebels?
Muslim Bro-Hood? The Taliban? al-Qaeda?

More importantly; What are they??? My Answer is: a convenient excuse!!!

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Obama's war in Libya is for oil.

Ya; but it is not as though we love Kadaffi's guts or anything... Those people who have the nerve to thumb their noses at us are really laying their lives on the line, and that of their little dog too... We have a Cut of the Head of the Snake attitude... It does not much work when everyone is a snake and everyone hates us equally.... Those we cannot kill we think we can corrupt, and we are usually correct in that assumption... We only believe that because we are personally and politically corrupt...If we were pure of heart we would not think of corrupting others, or presume that they are corruptable... When we project ourselves onto the world, we do say as madmen, and so we believe all people equally mad... What if Kadaffi is the only sane one???

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@Irishk,

Irishk wrote:

John Kerry wrote an opinion piece in the WSJ a couple of days ago saying the exact opposite. He used the example of Egypt and how well things have worked out there.

I'm nervous, though. I can foresee scenarios where this might not end well.

Thing are not going well, or fast enough for many in Egypt... They wanted revolt and we let them have reform, but the need for revolt is still there...

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@Fido,

What a putz. "We" didn't "let" them have anything. The United States and Europe were no part of the situation.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
I'm nervous, though. I can foresee scenarios where this might not end well.

Life is like that.

Inaction can often lead to the same end as action.

Do you expect the fact that we take action against enemies and give our friends a pass even though there is the same common voice for change across the region??? We are using the upset of our enemies as a pretext... It is the Jewish theory of history: One thing led to another.. Well yes, but what is concealed by such word has as much portant as what is revealed...

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@Irishk,

Irishk wrote:

True. And figuring it all out is definitely above my paygrade lol.

Why not just admit that you can't because you won't, or that the power of foresight is denied to those who hope against hope... Don't think the Muslim world is going to miss much our dealing off the bottom of the deck with them... They will know us by our deeds, and we hate freedom for them as much as we hate it for ourselves... Or should I say: Our leaders will not see them with more freedom than they allow to us, which is little... They can raise hell, and change a leader if they are serious enough, but they will not have anything resembling democracy if we can have our way... Leaders, and kings can be easily corrupted, but the task of corrupting a whole people takes generations... Look at how long it has taken them to corrupt and demoralize us... And they are not satified yet, and we are not all corrupted, yet...

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Irishk wrote:
He used the example of Egypt and how well things have worked out there.

Kerry must have been smoking dope. There is no good reason to assume that anything substantive has changed in Egypt.

That guy is a dope... What a damned punching bag for republicans... That is why no parent should let their kids play with plastic bags or lobotomy instraments... I can't believe I ever got off my ass to vote for that clown....

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

What a putz. "We" didn't "let" them have anything. The United States and Europe were no part of the situation.

Let me offer an argument for idiots: Ah, Shutup!!! seriously; All of that calling on Mubarak to leave was not about letting the situation disolve into anarchy which might have ruined our well supported military there, and its claim to legitimacy??? If the people were crying out loud for change, and the change was just more establishment figures, then was it not change denied??? How long would it take with the right people in to re-write a constitution??? My guess is about 15 minutes... What is wanted at the top is the will to do so... It will not take those people long to figure out that the new boss is the same as the old boss, and that the old and new boss both work for the same employer: U.S.

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@Fido,

You understand nothing about Egypt and it's recent history. Mubarak is gone because the military-corporate government there decided that he had become a liability. It has nothing at all to do with what the United States or any European country wants. You make this **** up as you go along, right?

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I found his section on the 'interests of America' to be unconvincing, compared to the rest.

Unconvincing? That's funny. I found it to be hilariously implausible.

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@joefromchicago,

He has no choice but to be hilariously implausible on that topic - or he'll have to face the truth uttered by the North Korean government spokesman who, essentially, said they fear no foreign intervention, regime change, or any other messing with their domestic affairs because they had the smarts to get nukes:

Quote:

It was fully exposed before the world that “Libya′s nuclear dismantlement” much touted by the U.S. in the past turned out to be a mode of aggression whereby the latter coaxed the former with such sweet words as “guarantee of security” and “improvement of relations” to disarm itself and then swallowed it up by force.
................
The DPRK was quite just when it took the path of Songun and the military capacity for self-defence built up in this course serves as a very valuable deterrent for averting a war and defending peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula.

Trim the frills, that's what the guy's saying: http://nknews.org/2011/03/dprk-foreign-ministry-spokesman-denounces-u-s-military-attack-on-libya/

1 Reply

@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

He has no choice but to be hilariously implausible on that topic - or he'll have to face the truth uttered by the North Korean government spokesman who, essentially, said they fear no foreign intervention, regime change, or any other messing with their domestic affairs because they had the smarts to get nukes:

That was, of course, the lesson of the Bush Doctrine. "If you're a dictator who is developing weapons of mass destruction, we'll invade. If you're a dictator who has weapons of mass destruction, you're safe." Ironically, Ghaddafi gave up his atomic program fearing international intervention, and ended up with the intervention anyway and no atomic weapons. Oh well, some students never learn their lessons.

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Oh well, some students never learn their lessons.

In the 60s, at some expense to the Libyan government, Got-Daffy was educated at the Greek military academy in Athens, and at several army schools in England. Judging by his 20 year performance in Chad, he hadn't learned much from those lesson, either.

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@joefromchicago,

Those WMDs turned out to be fantasy, but there was logic to that approach. The Democratic approach - starting with Kerry and Biden, back when, advocating military intervention to stop genocide in Rwanda - is insanely dangerous; another reason for Obama to protect his flank from kooks (including Mrs Clinton, who trekked over to Kosovo to congratulate a "democratically elected government" known to be entirely composed by gangsters running an organ-trade racket in addition to their traditional gun- drugs- and prostitution- rackets) who may next advocate intervention in the Ivory Coast (a million people on the run), Kongo, Rhodesia (Zimbabwe), Darfur, and on, and on. If "protecting civilians" is now the criterion, they will all line up to take a number.

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@Setanta,

You know the northern Chad tribes are closer kin to the Ghaddafi tribe than they are to tribes in Cyrenaica so they're likely to stick with him. For much the same reason the Pakistanis will stick with their brothers the Afghan Taliban no matter what they say to anyone else - on the day the Indians attack, they figure, their Afghan brothers will be right there fighting alongside them and we'll be nowhere to be found. We underestimate tribal ties at our peril.

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@Fido,

We all learn from our mistooks. I voted for Obama.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

We all learn from our mistooks. I voted for Obama.

I don't think that was a mistook, CI; imagine having McCain instead (shudder)

Cycloptichorn

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@High Seas,

P.S. Congo, sorry typo. But that ongoing tribal war there (a million killed, year in, year out, millions raped, for decades) shows the inanity of trying to instill "democratic ideals" in tribal peoples. The UN spent a billion dollars to hold elections there to get the same results they would have got by counting heads.

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@High Seas,

There are many countries in this world where tribal wars and tyrannical governments will continue to rule with or without our involvement. We only expend our people and treasure for a lost cause. Why our government insists on getting involved while our own citizens suffer deprivation is a mystery.

1 Reply

military action against Libya

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