Wrestlin' in Wisconsin

@BillRM,

Spot on.

Cycloptichorn

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Nonsense Hawkeye if we would tax the upper two percents so they ONLY have 25 percents of the total wealth instead of 50 percents we could fund all those promises without breaking a sweat.

With Globalization that no longer works, wealth can leave America with the click of a mouse now. This was one of the main reasons the corporate class pushed for globalization, because with it we lost the power to tax wealth. That being the case taxes on wealth need to be matched with cuts in entitlements and discretionary spending for everyone. Medicaid/medicare has to be cut a bunch, and social security some, and government pensions some, highway spending some, the military some..

If you wanted to argue for a just America you should have spoken up during the Reagan years, when voodoo economics won the day. It is a little late to be expecting it now, because it can not happen under current international law and with the current global economic system. OOOPS!

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

You can not move real assets with a click of a mouse my friend so placing controls over who can own real assets would deal with that problem very nicely.

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@BillRM,

That's a fact nobody can dispute!

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@BillRM,

Quote:

You can not move real assets with a click of a mouse my friend.

So what, most of Americas wealth is a mirage. Had you paid attention in class you would know that for a generation we have refused to invest adequately in infrastructure, that stuff of value that can not be moved. And we have not been able to fix our crappy education system either, and we have not been able to produce many citizens who are motivated to work either....as all of our pandering to victims fucked that up.

What are these "real assets" that can not be moved?

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@hawkeye10,

hawk, That's a far cry from your original statement,

Quote:

move real assets with a click of a mouse

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

hawk, That's a far cry from your original statement,

you are confused....please go back and review...

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@hawkeye10,

I read it fine, and understand the content in my limited English comprehension, but your points are confused and conflicted based on my understanding of the language.

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@cicerone imposter,

I have no idea where your failure in the process is ...I said that if we try to tax wealth wealth will leave and we cant stop it, Bill said that there is a lot of non movable wealth and I pointed out that really there is not, as building that stuff is not what we have been doing with our time. Had American been building physical infrastructure and intellectual or gumption capital he would have been right, but he is wrong. America is the land of the the poorly constructed, the balance sheet poor, the timid and the not too bright.....not a whole lot of wealth is here.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I have no idea where your failure in the process is ...I said that if we try to tax wealth wealth will leave and we cant stop it, Bill said that there is a lot of non movable wealth and I pointed out that really there is not, as building that stuff is not what we have been doing with our time. Had American been building physical infrastructure and intellectual capital he would have been right, but he is wrong.

Oh, we can stop it. All we have to do is decide to do so and actually go after people who are trying to take it.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

People used to think Swiss banks were safe from US scrutiny; no longer. Here, we're talking about liquid assets only.

That also ignores current facts; more liquid assets are moving into the US than going out. I do not believe hawk understands the dynamics of the world economy.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

What are these "real assets" that can not be moved?

Boeing is now in a world of hurt because they try hard to transfer the ability to manufacture aircrafts components for them all over the world and as a result they are years behind in getting their next generation aircraft out the door.

You can sell shares of Boeing with the click of the mouse however to transfer the real assets of Boeing it skills sets and abilities off shore is likely to cost more then those assets are worth and take a decade or so of time at least. That is assuming that the government allow you try in the first place.

So in short the assets are still there to be tax no matter who and where the ownership happen to be.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

That also ignores current facts; more liquid assets are moving into the US than going out.

UNder a regime where robber baron capitalism is in force and the wealth disparity is very bad and getting worse money is moving in, what do you think happens if we try to use wealth redistribution through government to impose more economic fairness? Is the capital going to be flowing in or will be going out do you think?

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@hawkeye10,

So Hawkeye what are the Chinese for example going to be doing with the billions upon billions of US funds they are holding in one form or another.

Money/capital can not flow in one direction no matter what the tax laws are.

See economic 101 for more information on the subject.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Boeing is now in a world of hurt because they try hard to transfer the ability to manufacture aircrafts components for them all over the world and as a result they are years behind in getting their next generation aircraft out the door

True enough, they would have been better off if they did like most other companies who were looking to cut costs and moved all of production out of the United States of America. This is what they get for being a defense contractor and thus trying to stay in the good graces of the us government by leaving some jobs in America. However, Boeing's problems with the dream liner are more profound...one is that they subcontracted out work that should have remained in-house and thus they lost control of the production chain. Subcontracting it locally would have been just as bad as it was the lack of control and not the distance that was the problem. The second is that they devoted to a manufacturing material that was not ready for production. This was a management blunder that will go down in the MBA text books for the next generation under the heading "what not to do". Both blunders will actually.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

So Hawkeye what are the Chinese for example going to be doing with the billions upon billions of US funds they are holding in one form or another.

What they are doing with our dollars now, using it to finance the building a technical society from scratch in record time that is better than ours.

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@hawkeye10,

hawk, It shows your whole thesis ignores what the US used to be as a tax-paying country that supported all the goodies most of us benefited from...

That includes welfare benefits that our mother used to feed and clothe us, the free educational system that allowed us to get a good college education to advance our standard of living, and the infrastructure that once stood as the leader of the world.

From living in poverty during our childhood (for most of us who lived through WWII), all of us were able to earn pretty good livings (and pay our taxes) and support our children's college education.

You now see the destruction of this country by the GOP who believes taxing more transfers the wealthy people's wealth to the poor.

Short-sighted and ignorant through and through.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

What they are doing with our dollars now, using it to finance the building a technical society from scratch in record time that is better than ours.

Sorry they need to turn around and spend that money in the US either directly or indirectly otherwise it is worthless to them.

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@BillRM,

Some people are blind to the simple fact that a country without a middle class is a country living in poverty. This is strongly evident in countries like China and India even as their economy continues to grow at 10%/year. They are polluting their own country, and destroying their environment. That's an awful high price to pay for the growth of a small percentage of their population.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Some people are blind to the simple fact that a country without a middle class is a country living in poverty. This is strongly evident in countries like China and India even as their economy continues to grow at 10%/year. They are polluting their own country, and destroying their environment. That's an awful high price to pay for the growth of a small percentage of their population.

Well put.

A
R
T

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Wrestlin' in Wisconsin

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