1
   

Was this part of a Martian epididymis?

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 07:06 am
@bewildered,
bewildered wrote:

New edition of the Feb. 18 addendum:
Added on Feb. 18, 2011:
Reasons for identifying epididymis remains in meteorite Lafayette

1. According to Wikipedia article (note 1), epididymis is part of the male reproductive system. In humans, it is six meters long, tightly coiled behind each testis. This human epididymis tubule micrograph (Fig. 1): http://www.bu.edu/histology/p/16902lba.htm closely resembles the Martian material (Fig. 2): Edit [Moderator]: Link removed found in meteorite Lafayette (note 2).

I don't see any resemblance. They look totally different to me.
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 01:02 am
@rosborne979,
May God help you with the following newly labelled micrograph:
Martian epididymis marked in details

Some people still could not recognize the cells on the Martian epididymis tubules.
So, I marked the details of the cells, showing cell boundaries, cell bodies, nuclei, tubule lumen, etc. at
Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

in the hope that people could compare the Martian material more easily with Earthly human epididymis tubule at http://www.bu.edu/histology/p/16902lba.htm



rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 06:51 pm
@bewildered,
What is the original source for these photo's you are posting?
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 08:22 pm
@rosborne979,
The press office of the Leicester University e-mailed me the original electron image free of charge. That image appeared on the cover of the journal Meteoritics and Planetary Science. Another image I used was from the article in that journal.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 09:47 pm
@bewildered,
Bewildered...
There are a couple of issues you need to clear up about this.
Your picture clearly shows the martian tubules are only about 2-3 um wide.
The human tubules are about 150 um wide at their narrowest.

Since the smallest cell is about 6 um, how do you propose that this martian tubule works? The average cell is in the 15-60 um size. How will the cells move through a tube that is smaller than the cell?
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:19 pm
@bewildered,
bewildered wrote:

The press office of the Leicester University e-mailed me the original electron image free of charge. That image appeared on the cover of the journal Meteoritics and Planetary Science. Another image I used was from the article in that journal.

The original article wrote:
, "Hitesh Changela and Dr John Bridges used electron microscopes in the University's Advanced Microscopy Centre to study the structure and composition of five nakhlites, including the 1911 specimen, which is housed in the collections of the Natural History Museum, London. Minute wafers of rock, about 0.1 microns thick, were milled off the meteorites as part of the research.

By comparing the five meteorites, they showed the presence of veins created during an impact on Mars. They suggest that this impact was associated with a 1-10 km diameter crater. Buried ice melted during this impact depositing clay, serpentine, carbonate and a gel deposit in the veins."

These scientists identified the formation as that of mineralization resulting from an impact. Just because it looks similar to something else you've seen, doesn't make it so.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:23 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I accuse Roswell of havin' too much fun . . .

It was fun while it lasted. But now I'm starting to get bored.

Martian penis fossils can only entertain for a while. But eventually we need stories about Mars women.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:35 pm
rosborne said
Quote:
Martian penis fossils can only entertain for a while. But eventually we need stories about Mars women.


 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MyBDyee-Rjc/TOjSFu9s_tI/AAAAAAAACwM/RPFXaFr-gnE/s1600/5147DDDEN3L.jpg

Woohoo, when I was 12 I thought Yvonne Craig was the hottest woman I'd ever seen. If she's on Mars now, count me in.
0 Replies
 
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 02:02 am
@parados,
"Your picture clearly shows the martian tubules are only about 2-3 um wide."
The caption of the following picture says seven micron wide, not 2-3 um wide:
Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

"The human tubules are about 150 um wide at their narrowest."
By "Martian", I meant from Mars, not necessarily homo sapiens.

parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 10:11 am
@bewildered,
Quote:
The caption of the following picture says seven micron wide, not 2-3 um wide:

The size of the inside diameter is at most 4 um at your point B. The size of the tube cells can pass through doesn't include the cell walls. It is only 4 um wide and smaller at other points. There is no way for a 6um cell to pass through it which is about the size of human sperm.

Quote:
By "Martian", I meant from Mars, not necessarily homo sapiens.

I know that is what you meant but you have no evidence of cells in a multicell organism being that small. A red blood cell is 8um. See your picture here
Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

Even if we take what you point out as cells and compare them to the interior diameter of the tube they barely fit. This would make the tube very ineffective for procreation.
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 08:10 pm
@parados,
“…..There is no way for a 6um cell to pass through it which is about the size of human sperm.”
Epididymis tubules exist to transport sperms and molecular proteins, not blood cells. In fact, the walls of tubules serve as a barrier against movements between tubule lumen and outside blood circulation (note 1). So, tubules are not designed for cells (other than sperms) to go through.

“I know that is what you meant but you have no evidence of cells in a multicell organism being that small. A red blood cell is 8um.”
As stated above, red blood cells do not go through epididymis tubules. Red blood cells move in blood vessels only, which run outside of tubules. More importantly, look at the size of the sperm I marked with red arrow in the tubule. It was less than one micron wide at head, and about 0.3 micron at tail. The important thing is that all cells in the image were in right proportion to one another, which made life possible.

Note 1: The blood-epididymal barrier quoted from an article in Journal of Reproduction:
The luminal microenvironment of the epididymis is comprised of specific ions, small organic molecules, and proteins that are secreted or absorbed by the epididymal epithelium [1, 8, 9]. The blood-epididymal barrier, which is composed of apical tight junctions between principal cells, forms an impenetrable seal and forces the movement of molecules across these cells by specific receptors, ion and water channels, and solute carrier proteins [1, 10, 11]. Thus, the barrier creates specific environments between the lumen and circulation and within the epithelial cells [12, 13].

parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 08:19 pm
@bewildered,
Quote:
More importantly, look at the size of the sperm I marked with red arrow in the tubule. It was less than one micron wide at head, and about 0.3 micron at tail.


http://www.helium.com/items/699545-the-largest-and-smallest-cells-in-the-human-body
Quote:
The human sperm including flagellum (tail) is approximately 25um. The head of the sperm is on average 5um-6um.
You seem to be off in your size estimates.
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 08:39 pm
@parados,
You did not look before you talk. I was referring to the Martian sperm in my following image, marked with a purple arrow to the lower right of the image at:
Edit [Moderator]: Link removed
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 08:54 pm
@bewildered,
That's sperm? At that size? Any evidence of sperm being that small and still containing DNA?
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 01:23 am
@rosborne979,
If the following comparison is still unconvincing to you, what is it? Please note the authors of the article did NOT identify the material I marked in the left image of Figure 1 below, because they DID NOT KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

Figure 1 below shows Martian and Earthly epithelial cells in epididymis are almost the same in shape, although Earthly human epididymis is 15 times wider than that of the Martian animal.
Figure 1: Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

Source and credit for left image in above figure:
http://www.alphagalileo.org/AssetViewer.aspx?AssetId=41774&CultureCod

Source and credit for right image:
http://www.visualsunlimited.com/image/I0000h98DbfPL_K4
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 03:20 am
@bewildered,
By the way, the authors of the journal article did not identify or even mention the following image in their article, although the electron image is excellent enough to have appeared on the cover of the journal:
Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

Do you know why? Not knowing what to say about the epididymis?
0 Replies
 
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 03:32 am
@parados,
There are numerous microbes in Earth which are much smaller than the Martian sperm. The smallest microbe is 0.1 micron across. They all have DNA. The Martian sperm's head is 0.75 micron at the widest, so it could have DNA in its nucleus (the black dot).
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 07:05 am
@bewildered,
So, this DNA is fossilized?
bewildered
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 08:16 am
@parados,
I know little about DNA. But many meteorites have been found to still contain thousands of amino acids in them. Search Google for meteorite Murchison, for example. Up to now, no one ever succeeded in getting DNA from meteorites. A few people did try without success.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2011 08:27 am
@bewildered,
Since no one has got DNA from meteorites why do you think those pictures show DNA?
 

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