9
   

Taoism enlightenment: absolute happiness

 
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 03:24 am
@FBM,
Quote:
I don't see myself as a foreign body embedded in an 'other' universe; I see myself as a local expression of the whole, a point where the universe is aware of a very limited, narrow aspect of itself.


A beautiful way of saying it. I agree. But as this focus point I have more than observation capacity. I feel that to deny the aspect of me that can act is to not embrace fully what I am and what this world is. And I do not wish to find happiness at the expense of someone else.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 04:04 am
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
I don't see myself as a foreign body embedded in an 'other' universe; I see myself as a local expression of the whole, a point where the universe is aware of a very limited, narrow aspect of itself.


A beautiful way of saying it. I agree. But as this focus point I have more than observation capacity. I feel that to deny the aspect of me that can act is to not embrace fully what I am and what this world is. And I do not wish to find happiness at the expense of someone else.


Oh, I'm not suggesting finding happiness at the expense of someone else. Just that maybe free will, if it exists at all, isn't such a major element of our being. Maybe it's just a useful sensation produced by a few interacting areas of the brain. We may or may not have much of a choice about what we do.

In the meantime, it's practically impossible to predict the long-term outcome of our actions. They may turn out to help some, but hurt others. In the face of that inability to foresee all possible consequences, maybe it's not a bad idea to sit back and simply observe. Not try to force this or that outcome, but instead do what comes naturally and let go of the consequences. Most people don't want to do harmful things, so there will probably be healthy results in the long run. Healthy in the sense of being in accord with the natural flow of phenomena, I mean. 无为 is not a bad way to go about life. Beats the hell out of stumping or crusading till yer blue in the face, eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 04:30 am
@FBM,
Quote:
maybe it's not a bad idea to sit back and simply observe.


What do you sit on and where is it if nobody is doing any stumping or crusading till they're blue in the face?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 05:17 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
maybe it's not a bad idea to sit back and simply observe.


What do you sit on and where is it if nobody is doing any stumping or crusading till they're blue in the face?


I dunno. Wherever you wake up in the morning?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 06:32 am
@FBM,
It's under a tree I heard.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 10:42 am
@FBM,
I rarely think in terms of free will. That is a leftover concept from theism.

And it may be impossible to predict the long-term outcome of our actions, but that seems to be a bit beside the point. What we know for a fact is that the capitalistic system (which I benefit greatly from just by being born in one of the richest countries in the world) is made so that someone has to fail in order for someone else to succeed. This premise doesn't exaclty pave the way for selfless action, but in my experience, selfless action is always most rewarding. The motive is perhaps more important in judging the moral value of actions, but that is another debate. I am capable of experiencing the interconnectedness of everything, and I see the illusory nature of all things (not trying to brag or anything, I'm just saying that I value this perspective), but that doesn't mean I should ignore these illusions. But having seen them for what they really are, I am more capable of navigating this world of illusions without getting sidetracked, mired down and miserable. From the perspective of oneness we cannot really do anything, since doing anything would break the perspective. But we have to act, it is the way of life, and it seems to me that clinging to the "true state of reality" by severing all attachments is a denial of the gift of life.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:23 pm
@Cyracuz,
...yes...those were wise words...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:34 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I have had spiritual enlightened dreams with almost ever major religion you can imagine. Buddhist, Taoism, Islamic, Hindu, Judaism, Christianity etc. and all i have to say is ANY kingdom that i have been to in these dreams if they are divided they will not stand. That is why i have faith in Christ. you have a complete separation in Heaven and hell and that is the way it is meant to be. to say you need to experience pain in order to understand love is not truly enlightened. it is thinking earthly and not spiritualy. rather, I will treat earthly things earthly and Godlike things as spiritual. So on earth I will live as rightous as I can but know and understand that we ALL will fall short of Gods Image. Simply because in our own selfish ways we are all bloody sinners. So on earth Love EVERYONE as yourself and love God with all your heart, mind ,body and soul and you WILL be saved! and when you do fall short repent. and that means atleast consciously trying to make an effort to change. and to anyone who says what is the point? would you rather have it the other way and have a mercyless GOD, where we are all going to be condemed? I would hope every one would answer that as no. HELL is in no way or ever will be men and womens destination. and in my experiences you have to be excedingly evil in Gods eyes not to make it into Heaven.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:37 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
To me, the tales we have of Jesus the living Jew are wells of wisdom. But the christian version of Christ as God in the flesh is a faith that is made to entrench us in ourselves, cut us off from feeling the oneness save through the church, all to secure its authority as the supreme mediatior between man (self) and god (oneness). In my opinion.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:45 pm
@Cyracuz,
I do believe Christ was the "son" of "god"...as I and any entity is..."God" is the undivided Whole, the "Son" anything which is smaller in it, an entity, a piece, an extension, or just an object in common words...the "holly spirit" is therefore the link, the relation or the function which binds them all together...and that´s as far as I go to bring some sense to trinity...beyond that I respect everybody to its own beliefs but I don´t shared them !
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:53 pm
@Cyracuz,
The church I see is alittle off track i agree but for the most part things are done in the custom as they were when Jesus was here. Jesus IS the Mediator between oneself and God the Father. NO ONE know the way to the Father except by me Jesus said. and in church when you are receiving the body and blood of Christ one should believe that the spirit is TRANSFORMING them into Christ. And I Have all my faith in that, especially from what i have seen in my visions.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:56 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
...says the church that Jesus said. Every single human being can know "the Father" simply by looking inward rather than upwards.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:00 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Visions ?
hmmm...I just have one vision and is done with my eyes in the brain...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:02 pm
@Cyracuz,
in or out...all the same...still is relation, not much matter the direction...
...directions are perspective holders...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:03 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
and by looking inward are you perfected? or at times like all the rest of us do you stumble? where or what do you do then? that is the time when I seek Jesus, that is why i said he IS the mediator
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:03 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
If your faith gives you peace and happiness and makes you a "positive force" in the world it is all good. I simply choose different words and concepts to express the same.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:09 pm
@Cyracuz,
I will tend to agree with you. Because I also believe that with God ALL things are possible. I am happy for you and you may or may not pry I don't know how exactly it is done in your beliefs but I will Pry for you and everyone else and myself, and I hope that one day we can meet in front of God and enjoy one another's company!
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:09 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
...of course I stumble ! who does n´t ?
...my "spiritual" relation goes with the world and its magnificence...I look at nature to get spiritual relief...I like the green and the wood forest quietness to feel calm inside after a full day...the stars also bring me the same sensation...oneness is a good description of the feeling ! Wink
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:12 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
imagine all that greatness, ok, then multiply it infinately and that is what the presence of Heaven and God is like. That is why i understand earth and earthly things but wish for spiritual things. and sorry for responding to different people i am new on this site and am responding that way because i have not figured out how to do it yet so sorry
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:35 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
with Pry, do you mean pray? Not to be a bastard or anything, just want to be sure. Personally I do not pray, since I do not think in terms of an entity or deity, but I have my ways to find a meditative "mindset" that makes me feel connected and makes me forget my feeling of "apartness" for a little while.
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
morals and ethics, how are they different? - Question by existential potential
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 10/17/2021 at 04:46:08