9
   

Taoism enlightenment: absolute happiness

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 12:42 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:
enlightenment doesn't know what it is.
How long have u known that ?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 09:47 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

dyslexia wrote:
enlightenment doesn't know what it is.
How long have u known that ?
about a furlong.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 10:40 am
Did you know that in the reign of the first Elizabeth, Parliament set the length of a statute mile at 5280 feet (it had formerly been the Roman mile of 5000 feet)? That meant that a mile was divisible by yards, links, chains, rods, forrow longs (furlongs) into whole numbers. That was about 1590, i think.
0 Replies
 
taoist11
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:52 pm
It seems very abstract and not realistic. But Dao is real and nothingness is real. You ask all Buddhists, they all say all things, houses, vehicles, cities, villages, … are nothingness. Is there anything existing for ever ? No. Anything which exists, anything having a form, or wills, thoughts, sentiments all turn nothingness. But this material world always exists, doesn’t disappear, so this world also comes from nothingness. And nothingness doesn’t mean nothing. Remember this: nothingness is not nothing. I have met some Westerners; they are confused nothingness with nothing. With nothing, you cannot have being. This nothingness is like water, having no form but also having every form. Nothingness is also the condition of existence, i.e. there is nothingness, there is being and vice versa, there is being, there is nonbeing. Being and non-being are like two sides of a piece of paper. Buddhism says very similarly: being is non-being; non-being is being.

Everybody is nothingness. You live, breathe, work, love, give births, that is you are existence. This this existence has no characteristics, or not yin nor yang, or nothingness. If we say you are goodness, then you grant this goodness to others time after time, you become a saint. Hm, even Confucius, when living, people respected him deeply and called him a saint, real saint, he was still harmful, or say it another words, a saint is an enemy. What if I say you are bad ? So, you are left far apart, are put into prison and everybody hates you ? No, also. Then how you are like ? We must conclude that you are not good nor bad, or you have no characteristic, or nothingness. This time, you are good: you work, providing products or services to the society. But that time, you are bad since you get ill, or you have an accident, or you make mistakes. You may try; you work hard, learn hard, divide your work into small pieces, complete each piece, then complete the whole work to be successful. By this way, you see life is a sequence of decisions to be done and you did well and become successful. This makes you think that life is being. There is no nothingness. Nothingness is to deceiving. But many did like you and failed. Reading history of any race, you will see that there were heroes who failed. Gifted, moral persons but they were unsuccessful the whole life. And sometimes, we see a minister, a prime minister, or a billionaire fail. They have money, power, strong wills to success, they have everything, but still they fail. Just follow this principle: this world is nothingness, you see when they have conditions, and wills, they are successful but sometimes they fail. Life has no direction, because it is the chaotic mixture of yin and yang, is Dao, not just yang, not just good for people to win yang values, i.e. always good, always successful. Since human race had history up to now, we haven’t had a golden era.

Chinese famous writer Lin Yutang tells a story in his book The Importance of Living to prove that this life is never perfect, always has badness: “ A man was imprisoned in Hell. He was going to be reincarnated, so he asked Pluto:”As Your Grace want me to come back to life, please let me ask for some conditions.” Pluto asked:”What conditions?” The man answered:”Let me be the son of a king’s first minister, be the father of a first-rank doctorate; let me live in a house in the middle of ten thousand hectare land, which has a pond with fish and all kinds of fruids; let me have a very beautiful wife and many charming concubines, and all are dutiful to please me; let me have valueables full of the room, rice full of the store, money full of the trunk and I am a high official, living an eminent, rich, honourable, one hundred year life.” Pluto answered:”If life had such a person, I would reincarnate to replace you !”.

Every era, every society, everyone, all are chaos of the good and the bad, not the good only or the bad only, i.e, no inner nature, or nothingness. In other theories, they say that human race developS: from living wildly in caves, now we are civilized, we live in comfortable houses. But I don’t know if our inventions are developed, or profitable, or good. For instance, internet is a great invention, but good information leads to “good” adultery as they date more easily. Net causes cheating, stealing passwords, stealing account, i.e. stealing money. Not only those but also there are viruses, corrupted websites, websites teaching people to suicide, teaching how to make bombs and terrorists, via net, collect money, recruit new terrorists, and train well, etc. Internet is also harmful, not only good. Not good nor bad, internet is nothingness. Another advancement is artificial satellite is the same. To produce them successfully, human race spent great labour, spent great deal of money, time, grey matter, i.e, artificial satellites are harmful. Then, in using, American satellite espionage China, consequently, to China, American satellites are harmful. Satellites are also harmful to other countries. “Advancement” that way is nothingness, not goodness. To invent the good is to invent the bad.

Everything is the chaos, or nothingness, also space and time. From Mars, look at the Earth, where is back and where is front ? Where is high and where is low? Then we see that the high is the low and the low is the high and the back is the front and the front is the back, or yin is yang and conversely. Space with three dimensions just exists in Newton physics. In Albert Einstein physics, space is different. We know that light beams always goes the straight way. But light beams which from stars go to the earth near the sun, we see that light beam are bent. Einstein explained it is because space is bent. Space with three dimensions we see are not real. Time, one dimension from past to future, too, is not real. To enlightened persons in Taoism and Buddhism, they don’t see time and space inside them though they live in space and time. For them, time and space disappear. Therefore, they “forget” everything, even the past, even the most dramatic, sublime, hateful events. To Daoists, all are chaotic, all are nothingness.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:59 pm
@taoist11,
there is no dark side of the moon, it's all dark.
laughoutlood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 04:33 am
@dyslexia,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eAxCVTMJ-I

the sun aint gonna shine anymore

whereas

Tidal forces between Earth and the Moon have slowed the moon's rotation so that the same side is always facing the Earth
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 11:34 pm
If there is such a state as "absolute happiness" I suspect its central trait is an indifference to absolute happiness.
taoist11
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 12:19 am
@JLNobody,
Hi JN,
Actually, when enlightened, a Taoist finds he has an empty mind, but he still has an intelect, therefore he perceives goodness, badness, to win, to lose, to be strong, to be weak as well as ordinary people. So,a Taoist sees love & hatred, not to be indifferent to others. Moreover, as he sees he is chaotic & his enemies are chaotic the same, he returns evil with good, not to harm his foes, looks like he loves his enemies like Lao Tzu says.

As we know, Dao, the chaos of yin and yang is the essence of the world. But why are things so multiform ? That is because of De (Te). In Daoism, De is the what nature, or Dao gives things. For example, fire is Dao, its De is hot and bright. Water is Dao, its De is flexible and is good solvent for many substances. A magnet is Dao, its De is attracting iron. Each individual has his own De, i.e, his own things innate, his own talent, his own natual endowments, his own tastes. It is impossible that things don’t do so is what we call De. For example, fire is bright naturally; it must do so; things which are not bright are not fire. A magnet must attracts iron; if it doesn’t, it is not a magnet. De is what things get from Dao, what man gets from Dao, or nature. Say it another words, De is Dao manifests in each man, each thing. Dao and De, although different names, are oneness in a thing, in an individual. Thus, the world is one, not many. Things, phenomenons, humankind, although numerous, multiform, but all are Dao. In change, there is unchange, there is oneness lasting forever, and constant. But remember this: De does not make things, phenomenons, people become good or bad, or not become yin or yang. For instance, a magnet attracts iron , but this is not good nor bad. Magnets rotates and produce electricity. Electricity is used to run radio, TV, computer, telephone, cell phone, etc… sounds good. But without electricity, Hitler could not produce a great deal of weapon using to kill millions of people in the world war II, or say it another words, electrictiy, or magnets are not good nor bad, or they are nothingness.

Based on Dao and De, how does a Daoist act ? As we disscussed above, we can’t do the bad: the society punish us, but if we do the good, this means we do the bad. As a result, Daoism suggests wu wei. In Vietnamese, it is called “vo vi” which means “doing nothing” literally. Actually, wu wei doesn’t mean so. It has four meanings:

1. Each thing, each person has De, has his own nature, so we don’t need to interfere him to help. The nature of humankind is to interfere others noisily. Sages who rule a country, they would let people follow their natures, would not need to teach, to correct people.
2. Follow the nature of us. That is to do but not do, not reluctant. Be coldheaded, not to let things affecting our minds. Live the life of us fully without wanting things outside. If doing it well, then follow nature for things to be as calm as us, i.e, let things live their natures, not to force them to follow our wills. That is “to rule by wu wei”, “do nothing but nothing is not done”, follow the nature of things to change, so although we do but we follow the nature, thus we are like we don’t do anything. Doing that way, we can’t say we do anthing.
3. Ruling people the way above, people do not know we do as the Sun shines naturally helping everything to live but the sun doesn’t know its service because it is impossible that the Sun doesn’t do so.
4. Three meanings above are wu wei passively. Wu wei actively is to destroy all blocking freedom and equality for mankind.

However, wu wei is hard to practise to ordinary people. Ordinary people love the good, hate the bad or love the bad, hate the good. Persons enlightened in Daoism wu wei naturally, never reluctantly as they see goodness and badness are nothingness, so they don’t interfere others. He is not the good, therefore he doesn’t killl the bad. He is also not the bad, therefore, he does not do badness. Wu wei is not doing nothing, but is to follow Dao, follow the nature, follow world’s laws, follow the law all are nothingness.

This chapter is the most abstract of the book. I don’t want so, but I have to. And Dao is the practical life, therefore I would like to be realistic by telling you readers an example of Wu Wei, for you to see how a Daoist act in real life like you see … bread. For instance, if in a couple, the wife, as she misunderstands the husband, wants to divorce him, what does he do to practise Wu Wei ? When getting married, the husband thought that because of happiness, they married. Now, also because of her happiness, she leaves. OK, leave me. But he is not unhappy, because if he is an Taoist, his mind is nothingness. Though he tries the best, he still does not feel unhappy, like the Zen master Hakuin in the preface above. Since he is not unhappy, he doesn’t hate the wife. Then he waits for several months, several years and observes the wife. During that time, as he is balanced, he doesn’t make any scandal and he works well to make sure he may supply money for the family. He prepares well for the family, then asks the wife:”Hey, darling, come back?” If the wife says “yes”, they live together again. In both cases, leaving him and come back to him, all are ok, peaceful,since all are for happiness.He never feels reluctant. Leaving or coming back all are ok.That is Wu Wei.

Wu Wei sounds “new” and very different from normal persons’ solutions. A couple of my folks have been divorced for decades but they are now still reproaching with each other. I often hear the first wife curses the second wife “the mare” and I smile, thinking to myself “Oh, God! Being stuck with dualisms, she can’t go beyond the misery. But I give you this book, discussing the truth, leaving all misery far from you, but you think that I am young and inexperienced (she is 17 years older than me), you don’t need to read mine. All life you hurt but I can not help you although I have the best solution here.”

After discussing the truth, we go to the section how a Daoist is like in real life; how he applies Dao in everyday like, and how is his inner world like. The key point is how Dao affects a man in real life.
(cont)
fobvius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 04:04 am
@taoist11,
Likewise I am to Lao Tzu in my thinking to have thoughts . Please continue.
taoist11
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 10:46 pm
@fobvius,
As we know, Dao, the chaos of yin and yang is the essence of the world. But why are things so multiform ? That is because of De (Te). In Daoism, De is what nature or Dao give to things, people. For example, fire is Dao, its De is hot and bright. Water is Dao, its De is flexible and is good solvent for many substances. A magnet is Dao, its De is attracting iron. Each individual has his own De, i.e, his own things innate, his own talent, his own natual endowments, his own tastes. It is impossible that things don’t do so is what we call De. For example, fire is bright naturally; it must do so; things which are not bright are not fire. A magnet must attracts iron; if it doesn’t, it is not a magnet. De is what things get from Dao, what man gets from Dao, or nature. Say it another words, De is Dao manifests in each man, each thing. Dao and De, although different names, are oneness in a thing, in an individual. Thus, the world is one, not many. Things, phenomenons, humankind, although numerous, multiform, but all are Dao. In change, there is unchange, there is oneness lasting forever, and constant. But remember this: De does not make things, phenomenons, people become good or bad, or not become yin or yang. For instance, a magnet attracts iron , but this is not good nor bad. Magnets rotates and produce electricity. Electricity is used to run radio, TV, computer, telephone, cell phone, etc… sounds good. But without electricity, Hitler could not produce a great deal of weapons using to kill millions of people in the world war II, or say it another words, electrictiy, or magnets are not good nor bad, or they are nothingness.

Based on Dao and De, how does a Daoist act ? As we disscussed above, we can’t do the bad: the society punish us, but if we do the good, this means we do the bad. As a result, Daoism suggests wu wei. In Vietnamese, it is called “vo vi” which means “doing nothing” literally. Actually, wu wei doesn’t mean so. It has four meanings:

1. Each thing, each person has De, has his own nature, so we don’t need to interfere him to help. The nature of humankind is to interfere others noisily. Sages who rule a country, they would let people follow their natures, would not need to teach, to correct people.
2. Follow the nature of us. That is to do but not do, not reluctant. Be coldheaded, not to let things affecting our minds. Live the life of us fully without wanting things outside. If doing it well, then follow nature for things to be as calm as us, i.e, let things live their natures, not to force them to follow our wills. That is “to rule by wu wei”, “do nothing but nothing is not done”, follow the nature of things to change, so although we do but we follow the nature, thus we are like we don’t do anything. Doing that way, we can’t say we do anthing.
3. Ruling people the way above, people do not know we do as the Sun shines naturally helping everything to live but the sun doesn’t know its service because it is impossible that the Sun doesn’t do so.
4. Three meanings above are wu wei passively. Wu wei actively is to destroy all blocking freedom and equality for mankind.

However, wu wei is hard to practise to ordinary people. Ordinary people love the good, hate the bad or love the bad, hate the good. Persons enlightened in Daoism wu wei naturally, never reluctantly as they see goodness and badness are nothingness, so they don’t interfere others. He is not the good, therefore he doesn’t killl the bad. He is also not the bad, therefore, he does not do badness. Wu wei is not doing nothing, but is to follow Dao, follow the nature, follow world’s laws, follow the law all are nothingness.

This chapter is the most abstract of the book. I don’t want so, but I have to. And Dao is the practical life, therefore I would like to be realistic by telling you readers an example of Wu Wei, for you to see how a Daoist act in real life like you see … bread. For instance, if in a couple, the wife, as she misunderstands the husband, wants to divorce him, what does he do to practise Wu Wei ? When getting married, the husband thought that because of happiness, they married. Now, also because of her happiness, she leaves. OK, leave me. But he is not unhappy, because if he is an Taoist, his mind is nothingness. Though he tries the best, he still does not feel unhappy, like the Zen master Hakuin in the preface above. Since he is not unhappy, he doesn’t hate the wife. Then he waits for several months, several years and observes the wife. During that time, as he is balanced, he doesn’t make any scandal and he works well to make sure he may supply money for the family. He prepares well for the family, then asks the wife:”Hey, darling, come back?” If the wife says “yes”, they live together again. In both cases, leaving him and come back to him, all are ok, peaceful,since all are for happiness.He never feels reluctant. Leaving or coming back all are ok.That is Wu Wei.

Wu Wei sounds “new” and very different from normal persons’ solutions. A couple of my folks have been divorced for decades but they are now still reproaching with each other. I often hear the first wife curses the second wife “the mare” and I smile, thinking to myself “Oh, God! Being stuck with dualisms, she can’t go beyond the misery. But I give you this book, discussing the truth, leaving all misery far from you, but you think that I am young and inexperienced (she is 17 years older than me), you don’t need to read mine. All life you hurt but I can not help you although I have the best solution here.”

After discussing the truth, we go to the section how a Daoist is like in real life; how he applies Dao in everyday like, and how is his inner world like. The key point is how Dao affects a man in real life.
laughoutlood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 11:17 pm
@taoist11,
What of duplicity?
MJA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:19 am
@laughoutlood,
To enlighten is to uncover the truth.
Truth is light that shines in us all.
Enlighten yourself,
Be true.

=
taoist11
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 06:48 pm
@MJA,
Chuang Tzu called a Daoist is a True Man. Let’s see he writes about True Men in his book.

“But what is a true man? The true men of old did not override the weak, did not attain their ends by brute strength, and did not gather around them counsellors. Thus, failing they had no cause for regret; succeeding, no cause for self-satisfaction. And thus they could scale heights without trembling, enter water without becoming wet, and go through fire without feeling hot. That is the kind of knowledge which reaches to the depths of Tao.
The true men of old slept without dreams and waked up without worries. They ate with indifference to flavour, and drew deep breaths. For true men draw breath from their heels, the vulgar only from their throats. Out of the crooked, words are retched up like vomit. When man's attachments are deep, their divine endowments are shallow.
The true men of old did not know what it was to love life or to hate death. They did not rejoice in birth, nor strive to put off dissolution. Unconcerned they came and unconcerned they went. That was all. They did not forget whence it was they had sprung, neither did they seek to inquire their return thither. Cheerfully they accepted life, waiting patiently for their restoration (the end). This is what is called not to lead the heart astray from Tao, and not to supplement the natural by human means. Such a one may be called a true man. Such men are free in mind and calm in demeanor, with high fore heads. Sometimes disconsolate like autumn, and sometimes warm like spring, their joys and sorrows are in direct touch with the four seasons in harmony with all creation, and none know the limit thereof. And so it is that when the Sage wages war, he can destroy a kingdom and yet not lose the affection of the people; he spreads blessing upon all things, but it is not due to his (conscious) love of fellow men. Therefore he who delights in understanding the material world is not a Sage. He who has personal attachments is not humane. He who calculates the time of his actions is not wise. He who does not know the interaction of benefit and harm is not a superior man. He who pursues fame at the risk of losing his self is not a scholar. He who loses his life and is not true to himself can never be a master of man. Thus Hu Puhsieh, Wu Kuang, Po Yi, Shu Chi, Chi Tse, Hsu Yu, Chi T'o, and Shent'u Ti, were the servants of rulers, and did the behests of others, not their own.
The true men of old appeared of towering stature and yet could not topple down. They behaved as though wanting in themselves, but without looking up to others. Naturally independent of mind, they were not severe. Living in unconstrained freedom, yet they did not try to show off. They appeared to smile as if pleased, and to move only in natural response to surroundings. Their serenity flowed from the store of goodness within. In social relationships, they kept to their inner character. Broad-minded, they appeared great; towering, they seemed beyond control. Continuously abiding, they seemed like doors kept shut; absent-minded, they seemed to forget speech. They saw in penal laws an outward form; in social ceremonies, certain means; in knowledge, tools of expediency; in morality, a guide. It was for this reason that for them penal laws meant a merciful administration; social ceremonies, a means to get along with the world; knowledge a help for doing what they could not avoid; and morality, a guide that they might walk along with others to reach a hill. And all men really thought that they were at pains to make their lives correct.
For what they cared for was ONE, and what they did not care for was ONE also. That which they regarded as ONE was ONE, and that which they did not regard as ONE was ONE likewise. In that which was ONE, they were of God; in that which was not ONE, they were of man. And so between the human and the divine no conflict ensued. This was to be a true man. “(Quoted Chuang Tzu by Lin Yutang)
MJA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 12:42 am
@taoist11,
A true One is One,
Be One,

=
taoist11
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 03:21 am
@MJA,
The difference between a Daoist and an ordinary person is that Daoist sees he is Dao, the chaos of yin and yang, not distinguished, no nature. This having-no-nature thing, of course, has one side is nonbeing and this nonbeing is the left side which the right side is being, therefore a Daoist sees he is nothingness. This is the key point to infer all his inner world and his actions. To know one leading to know all is here. In compare with an ordinary person, an ordinary person considers, hopes that he is good, or he feels inferiority complex that he is bad. This makes a Daoist different to all. As a Daoist feels he is nothingness, he doesn’t love himself nor hates himself. Since he sees everybody is Dao, is the chaos of goodness and badness, he doesn’t hate anybody, even the minority.Because doing goodness is doing badness, Daoists don’t need to find goodness or fame. In general, a Daoist works to earn money for life, but to do things noisily to be famous, he doesn’t. Corruption, stealing, wasting, v.v… those sins, Daoists feel unknown. Daoists are not goodness, so they feel strange when others serve them in a corrupt way. As a Daoist sees money is Dao, the chaos of goodness and badness, he doesn’t love nor hates money. Not loving money, he never steal things, money. As a consequence, he is frank. Since he sees money is not good and he doesn’t love it, he acts the way “ failing they had no cause for regret; succeeding, no cause for self-satisfaction.” In any situation, they are composed, free, and calm. If they are on a boat in the vast sea, the boat is pierced, Daoists will not fear death. There is birth, there is dead; birth and dead are oneness. Dao is the chaos of living and dead; everybody has the cause of death inside, or germs, Daoists foresee, so they are always calm. Consequently, Chuang Tzu wrote:” enter water without becoming wet, and go through fire without feeling hot. “ A Daoist enters water, still he is wet, and goes throught the fire, he is burnt like everybody. Daoists are like ordinary people, also obeying physical laws, but if threatening them by putting them into water until they die, or to burn them, they don’t fear. The evidence of this is Chuang Tzu was so poor that he had to borrow rice; he was still hungry like everybody, not a god that fire could not burn. Chuang Tzu was an ordinary person, not a god as Daoist religion makes him.

I eat, breathe like an ordinary person, nothing strange. I’m different from my folks that in my mind, I see the chaos of the good and the bad, advantages and disadvantages, honour and shame, failing and succeeding, the right and the wrong, …, nothing distinguishing, no nature, so it is called to see nothingness. Because my mind is nothingness, very true, so when I see people around me who are eager with something, love something, love somebody and so hate somebody, and hating leads to misery, I see that they don’t understand the truth throughly. For example, can Vietnamese love Viet Nam ? Wrong. It is impossible to love Viet Nam. Viet Nam is chaotic; heroes jumble up with monsters in it. VietNam has not had an golden era, not the good. It is not good, how do they love it ? Therefore, nation and people, Daoists abolished long time ago. There is love, there is hatred. The person hating somebody, how do we call him a True Man ? As a result, Daoists treat every people equally; they don’t hate any people nor love any people. Because they are not close to any people, they are not strange to any people and they treat everybody the way they treat themselves. Treating everybody like themselves, that is “to wage war, they can destroy a kingdom and yet not lose the affection of the people.” For instance, to confront with an invasion, although the Daoist has the relatives killed by the enemy, still he wont hurt because his mind is empty, so he won’t feel hatred for the enemy. Not feeling hatred, he uses grace to influence the enemies, like the story Watering the melons for others:

“Tong Tuu was an official in a district near the border of Luong state and So state.
The two heads of communal house in the village of Luong state and So state plan melons. The one in Luong was hardworking and water the melons well so the melons were good. The one in So was lazy and water badly so the melons were bad.
The official in So, seeing goodness in Luong and badness in So, felt angry. The head of communal house in the village in So saw Luong’s melons were better, he envied, therefore, at nights he went to Luong secrecly and destroyed Luong’s melons and some Luong’s melons were faded and died.
Then the head of the communal house in the village in Luong knew that, telling the official, intending to destroyed So’s melons. The official said it to Tong Tuu. Tong Tuu said:
- Oh! Why is it so ! Doing like that only make hatred, get misfortune. Now I tell you, don’t go there to destroy their melons. At night, go there secrectly and water their melons but don’t let they know.
The head of the communal house in the village followed him.
Then the melons in So became better and better. The head of communal house in the village in So was surprised; he investigated many times and found out that the one in Luong came to help.
The official in So knew the affair well, and he was pleased. He reported to the So’s king.
The So’s king knew that; he felt sad and ashamed, thinking:”Not only destroying their melons, they must also did many other things sinful.”
The king then brought treasures to confess their faults and made peace. Luong’s king also believe in them. As a consequence, the two countries stayed in peace for a long time.
Old saying says:”Change failing into succeed; on the occasion of unluck, make luck”. Lao Tzu said:”Require evil with good”. The two sayings are this story.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 08:18 am
@taoist11,
...Undoing and Nothingness are actually two different "things"...while the first addresses the process of deconstruction of something the second has no place anywhere.
MJA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 09:45 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
What is nothingness in a Universe of everything?
I can't see it or be it,
Can you?

=
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 11:54 am
@MJA,
Filipe de Albuquerque:

Quote:
...the idea that something may be absent is quite different from the idea that everything its absent, and although the latter is an extrapolation of the former, such extrapolation is merely a symbolic abstraction, very much in danger of getting more the asked for, by means of wanting less...at this light the use of the term "nothing" must be taken in relative terms...normally we use to negate any of the present variables in an argument, which in reality is far different from negating all there is...that would negate even the necessity for a word or a symbolic representation of absolute emptiness given there would be nothing to relate any meaning to nor no one to understand it in the first place...bottom line is that ideas refer at least symbolically to "something" by means of representing conceptually the function it serves...in the case the function of "nothing" is relative to all that can be thought off at the moment which does n´t fit any given goal, thus necessarily excluding the one which is thinking from the void, that is, "nothing" as a function refers to the absence of a current value for any potential operator that the subject might come up with, such that there´s a relation of absence circumvented in form by the presence of everything else in relation with the subject which enquires and gets no answer...once "NOTHING" is about the cognitive self aware function of presently lacking functionality in a enquire, instead of an Absolute void, it all "messily" results in a tricky conceptual situation !

That in turn only means an Absolute Void, the so called NOTHING, does n´t exist...Nothing its nothing !


Precisely the point...Nothingness it is nothing...so to say that we are nothingness only because we are in a state of flux is nonsense...
taoist11
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 12:42 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
(Cont)
But Daoists practise charity not because they love others, different from Confucianists, always “humanity, rites, righteousness, wisdom, faithfulness”. Daoists’ minds are empty. Chuang Tzu, highest founder of Daoism described that mind mightily in the story The boat hitting the ferry:

“A ferry is crosses the river. There is a boat, noone in, from elsewhere drifts to, hits the ferry. The man driving the ferry, although he is very narrow hearted, still he doesn’t get angry. If there was somebody in the boat, the man in the ferry would swell his cheeks,would glower, would yell, once, twice, three times then would curse badly.
Two cases are the same, but the first, he was not angry then the second, he was angry. Why ? Because in the first case, there is nobody in the boad; in the second case, there is somebody in it..

If they are just calm, having no personal opinions, who can harm them in this life?”

But not only always do goodness, always require evil with good, but also do badness to be balanced. Taoists are not goodness. After requiring evil with good, enemies still don’t understand, then Taoists return like for like, no fixed direction, as Dao has no direction. In Viet Nam war, there were not two battles alike. But Daoists are different from unenlightened persons as they have the ability of requiring evil with good all the time since they don’t feel hatred to anyone, even to enemies.

Another speciality of Daoists are that they are not humble. Being humble is good and being arrogant is bad. Daoists don’t follow the good, therefore they are not modest. Being modest is a yang attitude, is being, existing in a form, while Daoists are formless, nothingness. Daoists speak what they see, not to do goodness, do great work but speak less. When they are humble, they practise politeness, to avoid conflicts with life, to avoid misunderstanding that they are arrogant, have high opinion of themselves. Actually, being humble is very bad. The art of war says being a general must be modest, never be arrogant. Being arrogant when leading army is very bad because in that case the general sees all services of the army is his, from his, then he doesn’t praise soldiers and officers. His inferiors won’t sacrifice for the general any more. Good generals are modest. But if talented generals always be glorious ? No. Sometimes I see they were spoken evil, they were killed brutally in history. Remember Roman famous Aetius and Confucius. In ancient China, I always see other talented generals like that. Ngo Khoi, as greatly talented as saint founder Sun Tzu, at the end of his life, he was arrow-shot until he died. Ton Tan, highly talented, was envied by classmate Bang Quyen as Bang Quyen feared that Ton Tan would work better, leading army of some king to be the dominator, so Bang Quyen cut Ton Tan’s legs. Tin Lang Quan leading army of several states to fight against Tan state, the most powerful state in ancient China. He provoked Tan but Tan did not dare to fight with him. Tin Lang Quan was famous greatly through China that time as the strongest general but after that Tan use treasures to bribe some official in his state to speak evil of him to the king, making the king fear that Tin Lang Quan would be the greatest, the king, then of course the king did not appoint him as a general any more. Lastly, feeling boring, he just spent all his time to drink and have sex with many beautiful women until he died uselessly. Confucius was as modest as he had no ego, but he couldn’t take part in politics as other states always fear him. He was so dangerous to others. In general, modesty is evil, like the law yin is yang and yang is yin. Because Daoists see that clearly, they are not modest. When being modest, they follow politeness, the outside, not the inside, the main thing, i.e, Dao, to avoid conflicts with others. The main part is they we wei naturally. To practise modesty is to wanting other to follow, i.e, to interfere life, not wu wei; that is still put a strong will on life. But life is a chaotic mixture of yin and yang, not follow any strong will, therefore any will, although good or bad, will disappear, will fade, will be destroy. The universe doesn’t follow any will, how does a person can force others to follow his will? Any strong will will be broken. Modest will will be broken.

Not modest nor arrogant, but to confess themselves that they are enlightened, is it having high opinion of themselves ? No. To be enlightened is to see nothingness only, not goodness. I have seen some Buddiest monks. They said that I confess that I am enlightened, that is I am arrogant. To speak like that is unenlightened. I see I am nothingness, I confess I am nothingness, not goodness. Since I don’t confess that I am good, how can others say I am arrogant ? Daoists speak as they see, speak what they see, how can they confess that they still exist in a form, i.e, still be existence ? Existence is modesty and arrogance while Daoists are not modest nor arrogant. (Cont)
MJA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 01:14 am
To be enlightened is to be true.

=
0 Replies
 
 

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