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Taoism enlightenment: absolute happiness

 
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:43 pm
@Cyracuz,
yes i did indeed meant pray. ss Just typing to fast i guess. I hope that when you meditate and are focusing on oneself as you call it. I hope that a big important part also is to meditate for one another
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:53 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
The goal is to experience "oneness", to experience without "self", so to speak. But given the nature of words, this cannot really be described, only experienced. And in this experience there is no "me" and no "other". All is just one, and if I would call anything god, that would be it.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 02:06 pm
@Cyracuz,
I am glad that you tought me that. and I am happy for you my brother, because oneness with everyone and treating everyone how you would like to be treated, complete unity is how God invisioned us. and if somehow it simply cannot exsist on this world it will someday. and In my experiences the unity and oneness that you feel is how it is suppossed to be. I personally have experienced things out of this world (meaning very spiritual) and I can tell you that it is infinately greater. I pray that one day you WILL find God and believe
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 02:16 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
perhaps you can answer this question Cyracuz, why when I have dreams of Taoism why am I sparring with Lao-Tzu
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 03:37 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Crycuz, my condolences. You fell into a christian fundamentalist's trap.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 03:39 pm
@JLNobody,
maybe then you can answer it for me. I WAS being serious
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 04:17 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
and notice how yet again i NEVER once personally attacked cy in ANY way. actually i gave him praise in certain ways i was not mocking him. yet someone personally attacks a Christian. how then can you say that you are happy? you must be upset with something to attack me for no reason?
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 05:44 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I'll not enter your trap!
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 06:39 pm
@JLNobody,
my friend by posting what you said about Christian Fundamentalist trap you already have walked right into the snare of your feet. for to be complete in nothingness and oneself means you would not have got angry enough to the point to even post that...It is ok all is well!
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 08:30 pm
@JLNobody,
I did? Yesterday I walked into a spiderweb also, or so I'm told. I didn't feel a thing, though if I'd seen it I would have walked around so the spider didn't have to rebuild it.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 08:37 pm
@Cyracuz,
he he he... Wink
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 09:02 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

I rarely think in terms of free will. That is a leftover concept from theism.


Indeed.

Quote:
And it may be impossible to predict the long-term outcome of our actions, but that seems to be a bit beside the point. What we know for a fact is that the capitalistic system (which I benefit greatly from just by being born in one of the richest countries in the world) is made so that someone has to fail in order for someone else to succeed. This premise doesn't exaclty pave the way for selfless action, but in my experience, selfless action is always most rewarding. The motive is perhaps more important in judging the moral value of actions, but that is another debate. I am capable of experiencing the interconnectedness of everything, and I see the illusory nature of all things (not trying to brag or anything, I'm just saying that I value this perspective), but that doesn't mean I should ignore these illusions. But having seen them for what they really are, I am more capable of navigating this world of illusions without getting sidetracked, mired down and miserable. From the perspective of oneness we cannot really do anything, since doing anything would break the perspective. But we have to act, it is the way of life, and it seems to me that clinging to the "true state of reality" by severing all attachments is a denial of the gift of life.


I highlighted 3 places and will reply to them in order:
1. While the win-lose aspect of capitalism does exist, there is also the cooperative aspects that are integral to its functioning. I think you can see either aspect as dominant, depending on how you look at it.

2. In my soliloquy above, I wrote, "Not try to force this or that outcome, but instead do what comes naturally and let go of the consequences." This doesn't mean total inaction; it does mean detaching from your own actions and their consequences, though. Doing so reduces one's self-importance, or conversely, reducing one's self-importance can help you detach from your own actions. Why would anyone want to do this? Because the result is a great dimunition in stress.

3. This seems like a very value-laden statement. That's not to negate it, just to point out that there are other ways of looking at it, other values that may be applied without slipping into extremes. Life can be seen as a gift, but it's a gift we will all lose. Clinging to something you're bound to lose brings about stress and suffering. Maintaining a state of equanimity and detachment isn't clinging, as far as I know. It's cultivating a minimal-stress existence. For me, it's bringing the meditative awareness of things as they are into one's everyday life and applying that awareness to one's mental and emotional state of being. I have a feeling you do something much like this, too. Maybe we just differ in a few nuances here and there. No biggie. Cool
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 02:28 am
@FBM,
Nice, I can just refer to your numbers. Smile

1. Yes, it can be looked at from another point of view. But my point was just that living with the benefits of such an exploitive system is a source of much accumulation of karma, for lack of a better word. I believe this is the reason for alot of the mental illnesses that people suffer. They may be healthy minds protesting to a sick society.

2.I see your point. But for myself there are some things I must do before I can walk down this path. Things that will be a source of unrest for me if I just pass on them. In the meantime I try to stay in touch with my equilibrium.

3. I think it's Jehovas witness who don't celebrate birthdays or christmas or anything at all, since "the end of days is just around the corner anyway". I think that is just sad..
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 02:43 am
@Cyracuz,
wrt your #3 response, I'll quote Bob Dylan out of context: "It ain't me, babe." Wink
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 01:44 pm
@FBM,
Regarding Cyracuz' statement that freewill is a leftover concept from theism: Yes (or perhaps we should generalize this to the three Abrahamic religions).
And "freewill" is now essential to the culture of Law. We can't hold people to be guilty of crimes if we cannot assume that they exercise freewill. Like ego, freewill is one of those necessary illusions.
BTW, who exercises freewill but egos?
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 02:16 pm
@JLNobody,
Yes, when I said theism I was specifically thinking of the Abrahamic religions. Thanks for the specification. Wink
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 07:47 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Regarding Cyracuz' statement that freewill is a leftover concept from theism: Yes (or perhaps we should generalize this to the three Abrahamic religions).
And "freewill" is now essential to the culture of Law. We can't hold people to be guilty of crimes if we cannot assume that they exercise freewill. Like ego, freewill is one of those necessary illusions.
BTW, who exercises freewill but egos?


I suppose it's a necessary illusion as long as we intend to perpetuate the legal system that grew up around the illusion. But how dependable is a legal system or anything else that's based on illusion? It might not be a bad idea to consider alternative systems. (No, I don't think it'll really happen, just sayin'.)

Let's say the concept of individual culpability were removed from the law. We could nevertheless enforce most of the existing laws on the basis of suppressing behavior that is damaging to society, that is, based on a therapeutic motive rather than punitive.

Convict: "I couldn't help it, your honor. I don't have free will."
Judge: "And I can't help locking you up until you stop doing that kind of ****. Bailiff, take him to lockup."
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 09:26 pm
@Cyracuz,
so then if the purpose of life is to be completely balanced and be in harmony with both sides. what is the incentive to do good ever? and what is the learning curve or draw-back for ever doing bad?
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 09:30 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I don't know if that is the purpose of life. It just seems that life is so much simpler if we find balance...
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 09:30 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I don't know if that is the purpose of life. It just seems that life is so much simpler if we find balance...
 

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