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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2011 11:42 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Finn dAbuzz actually said: Check out history.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing ENOUGH FINN, REALLY, COME ON!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2011 11:44 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Actually can save money on a fox (or news ltd) subscription by simply imagining what Rupert wants you to think.


Smile


0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 12:10 am
What they have in Egypt now is a military dictatorship that wont be one bit better than the previous government. Dont look for a democracy anytime soon!
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 12:23 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
What they have in Egypt now is a military dictatorship that wont be one bit better than the previous government.


In the event that the sonofabitch wasn't the US's sonofabitch, wouldn't that be better, Rabel? Smile
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 12:24 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
What they have in Egypt now is a military dictatorship that wont be one bit better than the previous government. Dont look for a democracy anytime soon!
if they follow the Pakistan model we will see a series of weak governments with the military backstopping them and working to slow down the drive towards democracy.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 12:35 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
if they follow the Pakistan model we will see a series of weak governments with the military backstopping them and working to slow down the drive towards democracy.


And the US won't give a different or bigger rat's ass than the rat's ass they have given since forever, right, Hawk? You'll go back to sipping your Starbucks lattes and having conversations with your intelligent military buddies about which country the US should bring democracy to next.

The US propagandists will milk this for all their worth, completely distorting the historical record and the next generation of Americans will think that the US was responsible for what happened in Egypt.

There'll be movies made, tales woven about some American hero or heroes a la Pat Tillman/Jessica Lynch, who did such and such to help the Egyptian/Tunisian/[fill in the blank] people throw off their chains.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 12:48 am
@JTT,
Quote:
There'll be movies made, tales woven about some American hero or heroes a la Pat Tillman/Jessica Lynch, who did such and such to help the Egyptian/Tunisian/[fill in the blank] people throw off their chains.
I am thinking that GHWB hits the lecture circuit now, for an "I told you so" and to take bows..
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 12:57 am
@hawkeye10,
You may well be right. All the incessant hype, all the copious lies, all the unremitting propaganda. It really is sickening, isn't it?

Prime example:

Quote:

Jessica Lynch

Initial media reports on Lynch's recovery in Iraq were incorrect. Lynch, along with major media outlets, fault the U.S. government for creating the story as part of the Pentagon's propaganda effort.[2][3][4][5] Jim Wilkinson is credited for fabricating the government narrative.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lynch
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 01:06 am
@JTT,
Quote:
It really is sickening, isn't it
You are right about Lynch, but just as much as this was the governments fault for writing this fiction we also need to look at those who claim to be journalists who allowed themselves to become propagandizors for the government by spreading this fiction with out examination. It was not difficult to know the truth about Lynch, I am told that a five minute conversation with her was enough to cast grave doubt upon the government claims.

Re Bush, he might have been right that taking out Saddam was a way to spread democracy through the region, and history might well write that he was correct. However, it will not be able to excuse the corruption, the lying to the American people in the sales job, the failed military occupation, and that the endeavor was not worth $2 trillion that we don't have and a few thousand American lives. I think Bush and his people are delusional for thinking that the last few months vindicates them. A lot will depend upon what happens with Iran, if taking out the major adversary to Iran allows them the become the regional superpower, a nuclear power. I dont think it matters how much freedom comes to the mideast because of the invasion, it will be judged a negative in that case, especially if Iran remain under the control of the Islamic power brokers.
djjd62
 
  4  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 06:54 am
one thing saddens me, if this has ended peacefully, how will we ever get anderson cooper punched in the head again

perhaps we could send him to yemen
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 08:20 am
Yemen is having a lot more trouble (it seems to me) keeping their protest up. They are getting beat up and shot at while the security forces just stand by watching.

Thousands rally in Yemen's capital

However there were concessions and perhaps any change is a good sign of the ordinary people of the middle east having more a of say in their government. May be a bit pollyannaish, but maybe a twenty years from now, the middle east will be a lot different as it seems like the ordinary people (not the leaders and those in government positions) are ready for change.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 08:36 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
George wrote:
Why isn't the Egyptian military getting their props?

they are in my circle of Egyptian dancers and musicians - they've been posting
positive stuff about the Egyptian military for weeks (still are)

I checked that out. Nothing beats hearing from people actually there.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 08:36 am
As far as what happens next in Egypt, there have been some statements and analyst from opposition leaders and Egyptian commentators.



Analysts, politicians and pro-democracy campaigners outline how they see the future of Egypt developing post-Mubarak.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 08:37 am
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:
I feel dumb, but what does "getting their props" mean - excuse idiom-challenged
antipodeaness.

Sorry. It means getting the credit due to one.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 08:44 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
What they have in Egypt now is a military dictatorship that wont be one bit better
than the previous government. Dont look for a democracy anytime soon!

I disagree. The military will hand over power after the election. Not that that
guarantees democracy, but there will be no military dictatorship. Come
September, we'll find out which of us is right, won't we?
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 08:58 am
Egypt the day after Mubarak quits - live

2.42pm: Reuters has more on the announcement by the Egyptian military that the government will continue to uphold its international treaties.

"The current government and governors undertake to manage affairs until the formation of a new government," a senior army officer said in a statement delivered on state television.

"The Arab Republic of Egypt is committed to all regional and international obligations and treaties," he said.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 09:47 am
@George,
George wrote:

Here's what I don't get.

Why isn't the Egyptian military getting their props?


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/audio/video/2011/2/12/1297508292065/An-Egyptian-man-hugs-an-a-007.jpg
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 09:53 am
For those who want to credit GWB, we can actually "blame" him.

Quote:
In an interesting and even ironic way, the resistance in Egypt can be traced back to President George W. Bush and the war in Iraq. Protesting against Bush's violent means of spreading democracy, a loosely formed group organized the largest demonstrations in Egypt's history around the March 20, 2003, invasion. They eventually became known as Kefaya, meaning "Enough." Adopting the mission to bring down Mubarak and restore power to the Egyptian people, Kefaya held regular protests that called for the end of the emergency law, more freedom for the Egyptian people, and better handling of the economy -- essentially similar demands seen in Tahrir Square today. After heavy activity in 2004 and 2005, the movement fizzled due to apparent conflicts between the Islamic and liberal activists.

Out of Kefaya grew the April 6 Youth Movement whose members and affiliates played an integral role in this year's #Jan25 demonstrations. The group formed in order to support workers in the industrial town of Mahalia al-Kubra during an April 6, 2008, strike, organizing primarily through a Facebook group. Inheriting from Kefaya the lofty goal of displacing Mubarak, the group swelled to 70,000 young, highly educated and generally affluent activists by 2009.

After garnering international media attention for the heated debates held on the page, the April 6 movement also caught the attention of the U.S. State Department when protests began this year. A diplomatic wire released by WikiLeaks shows that American officials thought little of the Facebook uprising. It reads: "April 6's stated goal of replacing the current regime with a parliamentary democracy prior to the 2011 presidential elections is highly unrealistic, and is not supported by the mainstream opposition." Combined with the forces of other movements, though, the impact of the April 6 Youth Movement is nothing short of historic.

The following cast of characters -- many affiliated with the April 6 and Kefaya groups -- represent the critical appendages of the movement's anatomy. Working together as a body of dissent, they turned Egypt's uprising into a revolution. Salon
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 09:59 am
From the Guardian blog on what's happening throughout the ME.


10:39am GMT: The repercussions of Mubarak's fall are being felt across the Middle East as other countries in the region assess what regime change could mean.

Syria, which had strained relations with Egypt due to its position as a key US ally in the Arab world and its peace treaty with Israel, has welcomed Mubarak's fall.

His departure will change the "face of Egypt, the region and the entire world", reported the al Ba'ath daily of Syria's ruling Ba'ath Party. The state-run Tishrin newspaper said the protests "brought down the Camp-David regime" - a reference to the 1979 Camp David peace treaty between Israel and Egypt.

Meanwhile Yemen, which has seen spreading anti-government protests in recent months, said it would support the Egyptian people in their search for progress and development.

The official news agency Saba said the Yemeni government was confident Egypt's higher military council would be able to manage the country's affairs in the transition period.

The country's president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, arranged an unexpected meeting with military and political leaders late yesterday following Mubarak's departure.

Saleh, who has ruled Yemen for 32 years and is a key US ally against al Qaida, last week promised to step down at the end of his term in 2013 in a bid to stave off political unrest.

Turkey has urged Egypt's military to press on with elections.

"We hope that Egypt's military high council will act with common sense and hand over its duty to the new governemnt to be formed as a result of a free and fair election process, and eventually Egypt will proceed to a constitutional democracy," said a statement issued by prime pinister Tayyip Erdogan's office today.

Foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu added that Mubarak's resignation was an historic development for the Arab world and the region.

"Firstly, continuity of the state and public order should be secured. Secondly, people's demands should be met and a stable and lasting democracy should be built in Egypt through evolution. Thirdly, a transparent road map that the people can follow closely together with the international community should be announced," he said.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 10:05 am
They aren't leaving yet.

More details about the list of demands issued by protest leaders has emerged, Reuters reports.

12:39pm GMT: "People's Communique No. 1" demands the dissolution of the cabinet Mubarak appointed on Jan. 29 and the suspension of the parliament elected in a rigged poll late last year.
The reformists want a transitional five-member presidential council made up of four civilians and one military person.
The communique calls for the formation of a transitional government to prepare for an election to take place within nine months, and of a body to draft a new democratic constitution.
It demands freedom for the media and syndicates, which represent groups such as lawyers, doctors and engineers, and for the formation of political parties. Military and emergency courts must be scrapped, the communique says.
0 Replies
 
 

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