Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

my thoughts, the revolution on the streets has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy/civil rights. It is about economics. were a free and true election to occur the "brotherhood" would become the absolute/total government replacing the military establishment. It's all about food on the table; jobs; inflation; consumerism.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

I doubt, Finn, that you know a lot about the swords to ploughshares initiatives which were held every in Monday in the GDR and finally led to the Democratic Awakening .... which nowadays is part of the CDU, the German conservative party.

Back in 1989, 1990 that was.

Could be of some interest ....

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

my thoughts, the revolution on the streets has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy/civil rights. It is about economics. were a free and true election to occur the "brotherhood" would become the absolute/total government replacing the military establishment. It's all about food on the table; jobs; inflation; consumerism.

I disagree to this extent: The current protesters seem to be largely made up of young students. Young, educated firebrands get more charged up about civil rights than food on the table.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

And I'm hearing that the general population likes some of the freedoms that come from western influences that would be banned by the Brotherhood.

0 Replies

@msolga,

msolga wrote:

[Setanta, I have read report after report after report about how the US government is walking a delicate tightrope, acknowledging the demands of the protesters while attempting to encourage Mubarak's government to introduce reforms.
Clearly many commentators believe there is considerable US concern about maintaining its most powerful ally in the region. Which has happened to be Mubarak's government for 30 years now.
No amount of telling me that I'm silly or ill-informed gets around that.

Well it is true the United States has been a good friend to Egypt for a long time. We pressured the British to finally end their imperial rule in the region after WWII; later we told the British, French and Israelis to get out of Egypt after they invaded in 1956. We were estranged for a while after Nasser allowed the Soviet Union to base its forces there, but accepted Sadat's offers of peace after the 1973 war with Israel. Mubarak's government has certainly been authoritarian by Western standards, but, compared to most others in the Muslim world, it has been relatively mild. I think Setanta's assertions that the Egyptian Army is the decisive actor in the game now is probably accurate.

We are dealing here with the legacy of Muslim hostility and European imperialism. It all started with Napoleon and subsequent French colonization of the Magreb in North Africa, and reached a climax with the destruction of the Ottoman Empire by Britain (with the aid of their Australian dupes in Galipoli in 1915), France and Russia. It is a serious problem affecting a large part of the world. We have been trying to deal with it for a long time - sometimes wisely and well and sometimes foolishly and wrong.

Who do you believe is to blame for it all?

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

the

Quote:

Young, educated firebrands

want jobs they believe they deserve and the benefits that go with the jobs. economics pure and simple.

1 Reply

Speaking of the Brotherhood... This just posted on The Guardian's live blog.

6:36pm:The leader of Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood has warned that unrest in Egypt will spread across the Middle East and that Arabs will topple leaders allied with the United States, AP reports.

Hammam Saeed's comments were made at a protest outside the Egyptian embassy in Amman, inspired by massive rallies in neighbouring Egypt.

About 100 members of the fundamentalist group and activists from other leftist organizations and trade unions chanted "Mubarak, step down" and "the decision is made, the people's revolt will remain."

1 Reply

@JPB,

And in London ...

Quote:

Islamists in one demonstration wanted an Islamic government and Islamic law to replace Mubarak's 30-year autocratic rule, around the corner was a secular protest
[...]
"Mubarak out, Islam in," and "Allah take Mubarak the pharaoh," chanted Islamist protesters, including organisers Hizb ut Tahrir, a hardline Islamist group. Women and men in the group protested separately.

Nearby, other demonstrators were careful to distinguish themselves from the Islamists, sticking to secular chants.

"We're completely unrelated to that demonstration ... It feeds into Western fears on how it would affect their interests, and that's the excuse the Egyptian government is using to avoid change," said protest organiser Rafik Bedair, 36.
[...]

Source

0 Replies

@msolga,

I think we all know that the US pays certain countries to do certain things. It's a time honored way to manipulate poorer (and sometimes affluent) countries. We pay Israel, Egypt, Pakistan and a host of others...good intentions mixed in with a desire to control. Nobody's forcing them to take it.

US support will not influence the protesters. They are in the streets for more of a voice in their government. I don't think they give a whit about the money we offer for certain behavior. If they did, they'd have calculated that before taking to the streets. I think this is a grassroots revolution, not politically (or US support) motivated.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Agreed.

0 Replies

@msolga,

His govt is already quite undermined. Money from us may be a long run issue for Mubarak - but, whether or not he HAS a long run is being played out on the streets today.

0 Replies

@msolga,

Quote:

I see his government & the US as having been mutually dependent, to date.

You think the US is dependent on Egypt?

0 Replies

@msolga,

Just because the US has interests in the region not becoming a powderkeg, and that our administration is likely doing what it can to:
1. prevent the vacuum in Egypt from being seized by malevolent leaders
2. and help facilitate a relatively peaceful outcome
3. and quite possibly, because it is in our self-interest at the moment, help Mubarak pacify his people and retain a semblance of the status quo

doesn't mean we are trying to "control" the outcome. I would say the US is trying to keep a lid on an explosive situation - if we can. I imagine other world leaders are hoping for the same and using their influence as well.

2 Replies

From USA Today:

Quote:

Israel watches Egyptian uprising with fear

Updated 21m ago |

JERUSALEM (AP) — Behind an official wall of silence, Israel watched nervously Saturday as anti-government unrest worsened in Egypt, fearful that the violent and growing street protests could topple Israel's most important ally in the Arab world.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered his government to remain silent about the situation in Egypt. But in a clear reflection of Israel's concerns, Sun D'Or, a subsidiary of Israel's national airline, El Al, whisked dozens of Israelis, including diplomats' families, out of Egypt on an emergency flight. The government also urged Israelis to avoid travel to Egypt.

The stability of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's regime is a key interest for Israel.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I doubt, Finn, that you know a lot about the swords to ploughshares initiatives which were held every in Monday in the GDR and finally led to the Democratic Awakening .... which nowadays is part of the CDU, the German conservative party.

Back in 1989, 1990 that was.

Could be of some interest ....

You're right Walter, I do not.

Can you provide a link?

0 Replies

@dyslexia,

Well, I guess that settles that.

0 Replies

@Lash,

While I don't believe the US can control the outcome, it can influence it, and I see no reason why we shouldn't try to do so.

If we could control the outcome, that would be good too.

2 Replies

Has Shrub said "told you so!" yet??.....it was always his contention that removing Saddam by force was about much more than just Iraq, that it was about encouraging democracy in the region. He also said that history would prove him right.

I have been a Bush hater with the best of them, but now I wonder if he understood more than we gave him credit for.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

While I don't believe the US can control the outcome, it can influence it, and I see no reason why we shouldn't try to do so.

Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know