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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
talk72000
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 09:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Gomer Pyle has a fantastic voice. I was surprised by that.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 09:11 pm
@JPB,
I don't think any country is the ME will be unaffected. Happy to hear Iran may be trembling on the edge of change.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 09:38 pm
@Lash,
Lash, I've heard for many years that Iranians like Americans, and the younger generation wants the same freedoms we have in the US.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 09:40 pm
Meanwhile... back in Tunesia

Quote:
Tunisia's fragile interim government has called in military reservists to contain a fresh wave of violence as it races to organise the country's first free elections.

Three weeks after the people's revolution that ousted the dictator Zine al-Abidine Ben-Ali and inspired the uprising in Egypt, the feeble caretaker government is still struggling to translate the Arab world's first modern popular revolution into a meaningful democratic process and elections in June.More
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 10:46 pm
Photograph & extracts from a lengthy article from the Independent's Robert Frisk, in Cairo.:

Robert Fisk: Week 3, day 16, and with every passing hour, the regime digs in deeper

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00551/egypt-longflag-627w_551766b.jpg
Tens of thousands of anti-government supporters wave national flags as they gather for the 15th consecutive day to demonstrate in central Cairo's Tahrir Square on 8 February 2011, demanding the ouster of embattled Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
MOHAMMED ABED/AFP/Getty Images


Quote:
... Uprisings don't follow timetables. And Mubarak will search for some revenge for yesterday's renewed explosion of anger and frustration at his 30-year rule. For two days, his new back-to-work government had tried to portray Egypt as a nation slipping back into its old, autocratic torpor. Gas stations open, a series of obligatory traffic jams, banks handing out money – albeit in suitably small amounts – shops gingerly doing business, ministers sitting to attention on state television as the man who would remain king for another five months lectured them on the need to bring order out of chaos – his only stated reason for hanging grimly to power.

But Issam Etman proved him wrong. Shoved and battered by the thousands around him, he carried his five-year- old daughter Hadiga on his shoulders. "I am here for my daughter," he shouted above the protest. "It is for her freedom that I want Mubarak to go. I am not poor. I run a transport company and a gas station. Everything is shut now and I'm suffering, but I don't care. I am paying my staff from my own pocket. This is about freedom. Anything is worth that." And all the while, the little girl sat on Issam Etman's shoulders and stared at the epic crowds in wonderment; no Harry Potter extravaganza would match this. .....


..........

Quote:
..... Week three – day sixteen – lacks the romance and the promise of the Day of Rage and the great battles against the Egyptian Ministry of Interior goons and the moment, just over a week ago, when the army refused Mubarak's orders to crush, quite literally, the people in the square. Will there be a week six or a day 32? Will the cameras still be there? Will the people? Will we? Yesterday proved our predictions wrong again. But they will have to remember that the iron fingernails of this regime have long ago grown into the sand, deeper than the pyramids, more powerful than ideology. We have not seen the last of this particular creature. Nor of its vengeance.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-week-3-day-16-and-with-every-passing-hour-the-regime-digs-in-deeper-2208625.html

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:23 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Meanwhile... back in Tunesia



Smile
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
Again, you try to deceive, Hawk. You know that when you enter the military, you surrender your brain. It's all Yes sir, No Sir, Another blow job, Sir?

If military personnel had functioning brains they would speak up when all these war crimes were committed because honesty and fair play is the American way, is it not?

Instead, we see cover up after cover up. This extends long past one's time in the military. Look at that consummate liar, Colin Powell, who sat at the UN and lied his brains out.

The barrage of lies that comes from the military is the equivalent of shock and awe.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:39 pm
@JTT,
Youve said roughly the same thing 3 times now. Is that a North Korean brainwashing technique you are using ? You've been trained havent you ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:43 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
You know that when you enter the military, you surrender your brain. It's all Yes sir, No Sir, Another blow job, Sir?
IF THE 101st APOLOGISE FOR GANG RAPING YOU, WILL THAT HELP YOU GET OVER THE MILITARY ?
Quote:
If military personnel had functioning brains they would speak up when all these war crimes were committed
Or it is all in your mind.
Quote:


The barrage of lies that comes from the military is the equivalent of shock and awe.
The difficulty of applying a postage stamp is enough to put you in shock and awe.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:44 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
I don’t think it would be particularly useful to side-track this thread into a discussion of the rights & wrongs, wisdom or otherwise, of those US interventions.


Gob was just trying out a new echo chamber, MsO. His other one was allowing the truth to leak in. That level of discomfort was simply too much for him.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:46 pm
@Ionus,
See what I mean, Hawkeye.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:53 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
Wow, after reading what an absolute dirt bag this Suleiman guy is, I can only ask Why???
Why would anyone trust him? Why would anyone speak to the man, he should be strung up and given a taste of his own medicine and then jailed, put away from the rest of society.
He's not fit to be considered a statesman or has this world completely lost it's mind...


I share your concerns, Ceili.
I seriously doubt he is "the honest broker" required to negotiate a satisfactory resolution between the Egyptian government & the protesters.
If such a resolution is even possible, or desirable even, from those who seek a fresh start from Egypt's recent history.

Personally, I can see little difference to a Suleiman-led government than a Mubarak-led Egyptian government.

Here's a little information, courtesy of Al Jazeera & Wikleaks, about Suleiman's not-so-long-ago activities.

Is he a break from the past?
Someone who the protesting Egyptians can trust?
Someone with a fresh outlook on Egypt's problems?
Someone who puts the concerns of the Egyptian people first?
I don't think so & I'm not surprised that so many of the protesters don't think so, either.:

Quote:
As people in Egypt and around the world speculate about the fate of the Mubarak regime, one thing should be very clear: Omar Suleiman is not the man to bring democracy to the country. His hands are too dirty, and any 'stability' he might be imagined to bring to the country and the region comes at way too high a price. Hopefully, the Egyptians who are thronging the streets and demanding a new era of freedom will make his removal from power part of their demands, too.


http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/201127114827382865.html
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:56 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
See what I mean, Hawkeye.
Your continuing to insult the intelligence of soldiers gets old, and it does not reflect what I see. I realize that my perception is a bit skewed because we float in MI circles (almost all of the enlisted have been to college and more than a few have 4 year degrees..plus speak several languages) and because with my wife being senior enlisted we socialize a lot with other senior enlisted and officers, but I see a lot of very bright men and women up and down the ranks.
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2011 12:00 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I realize that my perception is a bit skewed


Perish the thought!
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2011 12:02 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Perish the thought!
At best you are the pot calling the kettle black...
and I at least admit to being an ex revolutionary who is on the political fringe and who comes from a unusual background..I dont claim to be normal.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2011 12:10 am
@hawkeye10,
Hardly an apt comparison, Hawkeye.

I don't cover up war crimes. I don't suck up to people just to further my career. I don't accept nonsense from idiots simply to secure a pension. I don't work for an outfit that has a long history of mass murder. I don't accept medals for being part of illegal invasions.

Are these guys part of your circle?

Quote:
US Soldiers Killed Afghan Civilians And Kept
Fingers, Skull As Trophies

By Patrick Martin

10 September, 2010
WSWS.org

American soldiers murdered Afghan civilians for sport and kept finger bones, leg bones, a tooth and a skull as grisly trophies, according to documents released by the Pentagon on Wednesday. The case is the worst such atrocity yet revealed in Afghanistan. It underscores that just as in Iraq, the US military intervention is a brutal colonial war in which the entire population of the country is a target.

The official charge sheets released by the US Army greatly expand the case initially brought against five soldiers charged in June with premeditated murder and beating a fellow soldier who was threatening to inform on them. A total of 12 soldiers now face 76 charges, with multiple counts of drug abuse, mutilating corpses, filing false reports, lying to military investigators and acts of violence against fellow soldiers. (See “The twelve soldiers charged in atrocity and cover-up”)

All 12 soldiers are from the same company of the 5th Stryker Brigade Combat Team, based at Joint Base Lewis-McChord near Tacoma, Washington. The brigade recently returned from a year-long deployment near Kandahar in southern Afghanistan.

Six of the soldiers face charges of keeping body parts from Afghan corpses, while three are charged with taking or possessing photographs in which US soldiers posed with the bodies of their victims. One is charged with stabbing a corpse.

http://www.countercurrents.org/martin100910.htm




hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2011 12:13 am
@JTT,
Quote:
I don't cover up war crimes. I don't suck up to people just to further my career. I don't accept nonsense from idiots simply to secure a pension. I don't work for an outfit that has a long history of mass murder. I don't accept medals for being part of illegal invasions
Funny thing happens when you go through life not as dumb as a rock, you find out that very few people or institutions are pure, and you learn to stop expecting to find them that way...

I wish you better luck on your next life...
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2011 12:15 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Are these guys part of your circle?

Yep, and even before they shipped out it was clear that this brigade was poorly commanded and poorly trained. It is a very sad story...and an embarrassment to the Army.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2011 12:18 am
@msolga,
Quote:
Photograph & extracts from a lengthy article from the Independent's Robert Frisk, in Cairo.:

Correction: Fisk.
Robert Fisk, reporting from Cairo. Wink
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2011 12:40 am
The latest BBC update:

Quote:
9 February 2011 Last updated at 05:05 GMT
Egypt protests: US call to Hosni Mubarak's government

Video report: The BBC's Jim Muir says Egyptians from all walks of life were present

The US has called on the Egyptian government to immediately lift the country's emergency laws, which have been in place for 30 years.

Vice-President Joe Biden made the call during a telephone conversation with his Egyptian counterpart Omar Suleiman.

He also said the police should immediately stop arresting and beating journalists and activists.


Tuesday saw one of the biggest anti-government rallies in Cairo since the protests began on 25 January.

It came despite the government's announcement of its plans for a peaceful transfer of power.

President Hosni Mubarak has said he will stay in office until elections in September, when he plans to step down.

Mr Biden told Mr Suleiman that the transition to a more broadly based government should produce "immediate, irreversible" progress.

The US vice-president has been phoning his Egyptian opposite number on an almost daily basis and his latest call is the toughest yet, the BBC's North America editor, Mark Mardell, reports.

Mr Biden said the interior ministry should be restrained immediately and there should be a clear policy of no reprisals.

Separately, President Barack Obama's spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said Mr Suleiman's remarks about Egypt not being ready for democracy were "particularly unhelpful".

The focus now seems not to be on President Mubarak and his future but on what the White House calls "concrete reforms", our North America editor says.

So far the administration's repeated suggestions over the last week have been met largely by grudging commitments from the Egyptian authorities and little action, he adds.

'Huge support'


As the protests entered their third week, hundreds of thousands of Egyptians poured into Cairo's Tahrir Square for the latest protest. Initial attempts by the army to check the identity cards of those joining the demonstration were quickly abandoned because of the sheer weight of numbers.

The BBC's Jim Muir, in Cairo, says the message to the authorities is simple - there is huge support from all walks of Egyptian life for the protests, and the government's concessions are not enough.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/51158000/jpg/_51158689_011217448-1.jpg
Wael Ghonim, a Google executive, hugs the mother of Khaled Said, a young businessman who died last June at the hands of undercover police, at Cairo's Tahrir Square. Photo: 8 February 2011 Wael Ghonim (left) is credited with setting up a Facebook page that helped galvanise protesters

Wael Ghonim, a Google executive who was detained by state security forces for 12 days, often blindfolded, was feted by the crowds as he entered Tahrir Square. He is credited with setting up the page on the Facebook social network that helped galvanise protesters.

"We will not abandon our demand and that is the departure of the regime," Mr Ghonim told protesters in the square, to cheers and applause.

Large crowds also demonstrated in the second city, Alexandria, and other Egyptian towns and cities.

In his response to the protest movement that has presented by far the most serious challenge to his 30-year rule, President Mubarak has set up a committee to propose constitutional changes, and another is being formed to carry the changes out.

Among the key expected changes are a relaxation of presidential eligibility rules, and the setting of a limit for presidential terms.

Vice-President Suleiman said a third committee, expected to begin its work in the next few days, would investigate clashes between pro and anti-Mubarak groups last week and refer its findings to the prosecutor-general.

He also said President Mubarak had issued directives to stop repressive measures against the opposition.

Many protesters have said they are sceptical about any transition managed by the government.

"We don't trust them any more," Ahmed, one young Egyptian queuing to get into Tahrir Square, told the BBC. "How can Suleiman guarantee there'll be no more violence around the election after all the attacks we've seen on young people?"

Death toll


The unrest over the last two weeks has seen fierce clashes with police, and pitched battles between protesters and Mubarak supporters.

Human Rights Watch (HRW) researchers say they have confirmed the deaths of 297 people since 28 January, based on a count from eight hospitals in the cities of Cairo, Alexandria and Suez. No comprehensive death toll has been given by the Egyptian government.

Some economic activity has resumed, but authorities have delayed reopening the stock exchange until Sunday. On Friday it was estimated that the paralysis resulting from the unrest had been costing the economy an average of $310m (£193m) a day.

The number of those on Tahrir Square has been swelling each day and dropping back overnight.

Meanwhile, leaked US diplomatic cables carried on the Wikileaks website have revealed that Mr Suleiman was named as Israel's preferred candidate to succeed President Mubarak after discussions with American officials in 2008.

As Egypt's intelligence chief, he is said to have spoken daily to the Israeli government via a secret "hotline" on issues surrounding the Hamas-run Gaza Strip.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12400422
 

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