@failures art,
Then that is worse news..
@JTT,
Not only that, but Johnson used faulty and false information to start the war in Vietnam.
Quote:Caught flat-footed and totally unprepared for Egypt's uprising, the Obama administration has been offering a series of excuses. It was, officials claim, quietly supporting reform all along. The CIA never warned that Egypt might blow up. No one could have anticipated what has happened in Cairo since Jan. 25.
The claim on reform is easily dismissed. Anyone who has been following Egypt for the last two years knows the administration's record of coddling President Hosni Mubarak, cutting funds for Egyptian democracy programs, and eschewing criticism of the regime's repression.
But another part of the record also needs clearing up: In fact, the White House was warned, publicly and repeatedly, that Egypt was approaching a turning point and that the status quo was untenable -- not by an intelligence agency, but by a bipartisan group of Washington-based experts who pleaded, in vain, for a change of policy.
The Working Group on Egypt was formed a year ago this month for the purpose of raising the alarm about Mubarak's crumbling regime and pressing the administration to adopt a different approach. The first sentence of its opening statement read: "Egypt is at a critical turning point." To this day it is issuing detailed proposals about how to handle the crisis. On Monday night, it warned that the administration "may acquiesce to an inadequate and possibly fraudulent transition process in Egypt." Sadly, the administration failed to take its warnings seriously -- and it is still not listening to its good advice
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2011/02/the_egypt_warnings_obama_ignor.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Obama sounds just like the Vancouver Olympic guys who loudly proclaim "WHAT! We had no idea that the luge track was dangerous" only we later discover that long before there had been email traffic between them about the tack being dangerous...the fabric of democracy tears a little more....
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
So whatever the CIA said, the warning that Egypt might face a popular uprising was delivered eight months ago -- where everyone in Washington could read it.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2011/02/the_egypt_warnings_obama_ignor.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
I have full faith and confidence in the CIA's ability to miss the obvious...
@hawkeye10,
Not only the full faith and confidence they'll miss the obvious, but when they think they know, will end up making the wrong decision.
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:The wishy-washy position from the Obama administration only encourages Mubarak to stay on.
Valid point, but any resolution the US is seen to openly support will be tainted by that support in the eyes of many in the region. It isn't always clear in the Arab world when the interests the US pursues are for the greater good or just US good (or the balance between those two).
@hingehead,
If that is truly the case, he shouldn't say anything that will encourage Mubarak. Mubarak will hang onto any tinge of support he thinks the US gives him.
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:Our foreign policy is dominated by our military and intelligence agencies - the national security state. As a result, our ties with dictators tend to involve deep complicity with the most unsavory parts of these regimes - the military and the intelligence services that trample (and often repress) dissent. We are not neutral or distant supporters of political freedom. We are viewed - most often correctly - as central supporters for the systems of repression that prop up dictators. We train their police, arm their militaries, base our troops in their countries. Not surprisingly, anti-Americanism is widespread - though not in Egypt's uprising - in the democratic opposition to the dictators that we support. Indeed, Americans, and American society, are widely admired, while our government is just as widely despised.
This distortion of our policy leaves us clueless when democratic movements arise.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/08/AR2011020803028.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
And just as our foreign policy has become the embodiment of the police state so has our domestic policy, for instance as I have been pointing out for hundreds of pages in the rape thread...
It is time for Americans to wake up and smell the coffee..
@hawkeye10,
They knew it was dangerous. VANOC did not design the track, the Olympic organization hired a the group that designed and approved the track independent of VANOC. VANOC built it and let their concerns be known once they saw the finished product. They had absolutely no control over what the design was. Many athletes also complained, again, the Olympic organization payed little attention to any of the concerns. What nobody expected was a fatality, especially on the first day.
It's the same thing as international skiing competitions where skiers have been killed or badly injured. The mountain remains the same but the course changes based on whoever runs the race. VANOC had no control over any of that and neither do the owners of ski hills et al.
From the Guardian blog
9:58pm GMT:US vice president Joe Biden has had another phone call with his Egyptian counterpart Omar Suleiman, according to the White House, and called for "irreversible progress that responds to the aspirations of the Egyptian people."
Biden listed the "immediate action" the US wants Suleiman to take: ending detention and harassment of journalists and activists, immediately rescinding emergency laws and including more opposition members in negotiations.
"These steps, and a clear policy of no reprisals, are what the broad opposition is calling for and what the government is saying it is prepared to accept," the White House said in a statement. "Vice President Biden expressed the belief that the demands of the broad opposition can be met through meaningful negotiations with the government."
10:24pm GMT:The Guardian's Jack Shenker gets an interview with a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Essam el-Erian:
Erian, an outspoken reformist on the brotherhood's guidance council, is at pains to sketch out the limits of his organisation's political ambitions. He insists that it has no plans to run a candidate for the presidency, though any broad-backed opposition "unity" candidate will obviously need the brotherhood's approval.
But he goes further and says the brotherhood will not even seek a majority in parliament – a far cry from the predictions of many Washington-based analysts that it is waiting in the wings to seize control of the most populous Arab country.
"If we can build a wide coalition instead, this would be good," Erian says. "This is our strategy for many reasons: not to frighten others, inside or outside, and also because this is a country destroyed, destroyed by Mubarak and his family – why would the rebuilding task be only for us? It's not our task alone, it's the job of all Egyptians." He adds: "The Muslim Brothers are a special case because we are not seeking power through violent or military means like other Islamic organisations that might be violent. We are a peaceful organisation; we work according to the constitution and the law."
This is NOT good news for those in the square.
10:34pm GMT:More ominous news – in a meeting today with "newspaper chiefs," Egypt's vice president Omar Suleiman said the administration "can't put up with" the continued protests in Tahrir Square and that the crisis must be ended as quickly as possible, according to the Egyptian state news agency MENA.
While Suleiman also said the regime wants to hold talks with the protesters about reform, he also issued a threat: "We don't want to deal with Egyptian society with police tools."
And in another hint of a hardline stance, Suleiman is also reported as saying there will be "no ending of the regime" and rejected an unscheduled resignation by President Mubarak.
The full AP report
10.45pm GMT: The Associated Press now has a piece up on Suleiman's hostile comments earlier today:
Vice President Omar Suleiman warned Tuesday that "we can't put up with" continued protests in Tahrir for a long time, saying the crisis must be ended as soon as possible in a sharply worded sign of increasing regime impatience with 16 days of mass demonstrations.
Suleiman said there will be "no ending of the regime" and no immediate departure for President Hosni Mubarak, according to the state news agency MENA, reporting on a meeting between the vice president and the heads of state and independent newspapers.
He told them the regime wants dialogue to resolve protesters' demands for democratic reform, adding in a veiled warning, "We don't want to deal with Egyptian society with police tools."
At one point in the roundtable meeting, Suleiman warned that the alternative to dialogue "is that a coup happens, which would mean uncalculated and hasty steps, including lots of irrationalities. We don't want to reach that point, to protect Egypt."
Pressed by the editors to explain the comment, he said he did not mean a military coup but that "a force that is unprepared for rule" could overturn state institutions, said Amr Khafagi, editor-in-chief of the privately-owned Shorouk daily, who attended the briefing. "He doesn't mean it in the classical way."
"The presence of the protesters in Tahrir Square and some satellite stations insulting Egypt and belittling it makes citizens hesitant to go to work," he said. We can't put up with this for a long time, and this crisis must be ended as soon as possible.
He warned that calls by some protesters for a campaign of civil disobedience are "very dangerous for society and we can't put up with this at all."
How long can this go on? It's much easier for the government to hold their ground - when they have jobs, money, and police-army "security."
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:How long can this go on
Not much...so long as the citizens refuse to stand down the military will be forced to pick a side. So far it looks like they will pick Mubarak's. We have been waiting and hoping that the junior officers break with the Senior leadership, who will almost certainly always support Mubarak, but so far it has not happened.
@hawkeye10,
Mubarak is the military. Maybe he is doing good cop, bad cop.
@ossobuco,
I don't know, the plastic bottles lid seems like it would do a good job cushioning a blow to the head.
@Ionus,
Actually no.
There are folks on A2K who will say that while they don't agree with everything JTT writes they appreciate his moxy.
It was the same with his Abuzz incarnation Marburg, although "JTT" seems to have learned that hoping American soldiers die bloody deaths is taking his rant a bit too far.
@JTT,
Quote:Vietnam was an illegal invasion of a sovereign country.
Never heard of the United Nations, huh ? Dont the tote passing brigade talk about it ?
I know you are easily confused, but Vietnam is not in the Middle East. Yes, the 60's made you feel important but you are addicted to delusions of grandeur. The world will not change because you are shrill and hysterical. In fact, it may even cause the opposite to what you want. People arent taking you seriously, JoinTalibanTerrorism.
Have you thought of joining a thread and NOT mentioning the yankee imperialist running dogs and the freedom loving workers of north Vietnam ? Have you thought of commenting on the topic without your senility taking over ?
