53
   

Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 10:48 am
@georgeob1,
If my memory serves, the US supported Castro at the beginning. Another twist of fate.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 10:53 am
Wow, after reading what an absolute dirt bag this Suleiman guy is, I can only ask Why???
Why would anyone trust him? Why would anyone speak to the man, he should be strung up and given a taste of his own medicine and then jailed, put away from the rest of society.
He's not fit to be considered a statesman or has this world completely lost it's mind...
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 10:53 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

I understand what you are saying and somewhat surprisingly the protest appears to be gearing up again after seeming to wind down the last couple of days. However, if in the end, Mubarak and the government just hold on making these kind of meaningless concessions and ride this out; without the military backing them, what can the protesters do? Do you think the businesses joining will have more of an impact for pressure for Mubarak to step down from the military?

Also, no matter what happens I just don't see how things can back to business as usual now that the spot light is on them to change. The protesters are not going to forget and go back to normal life. Or is everybody more or less saying that when the spotlight gets off, these talks of reform will just drift away if Mubarak does not step down now while the iron is hot so to speak?

As for as Suleiman, after reading part of that (will read the later) I can't believe that the US and Mubarak thought the protesters would think that he would be any better than Mubarak. Worse in fact.


I don't pretend to have a crystal ball, but the slow response of the Egyptian government and the international community has made them (us) irrelevant. Everything coming out of the Egyptian leadership is too late and not enough to appease the protesters. We're sitting here reading the same tweets and blogs as they're reading and it's fairly obvious that there's an attempt to maintain control (in more ways than one).

The fact that the USG threw itself behind Suleiman doesn't do much for the USG's position in Egypt, imo.

Also, it should be noted that Tuesdays and Fridays are the days that large marches are planned. Seeing a drop off over the weekend and midweek are to be expected.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 10:56 am
@JPB,
It's now a matter of who gives up first. I hope the pro-democracy group wins this battle and war.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:18 am
5:01pm GMT:A new Gallup poll shows 82% of Americans are sympathetic or very sympathetic to the Egyptian protesters, with 87% of people following events in the Middle East country closely, Salon reports. Justin Elliot writes:

The irony here, of course, is that Americans are on the side of protesters fighting a regime that the U.S. government has been propping up for decades. And it's an open question whether public opinion in the U.S. will have an impact on the Obama administration's Egypt policy, which has notably shifted in the past few days away from calls for immediate change.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:19 am
4:55 pm GMT: It appears that, in Cairo, the protesters have opened a second front at the people's assembly building.
Live blog: Twitter

@3arabawy

Thousands r now protesting in front of the Parliament. Blankets r being transferred there now. An opn ended sit in to start.



edit: So far the military is apparently taking a wait and see approach. There was commentary that the protesters have been told not to attempt to enter the building, but that they could congregate outside.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:22 am
@cicerone imposter,
Your memory is mostly wrong. Castro's insurgency in the eastern mountains of Cuba lasted a fairly long time, during which Castro became a sort of hopeful hero in some media quarters, from whom some helpful (to Castro) coverage emerged. Our government was equally skeptical of the kleptocracy under the autocrat Batista and the "new socialism" promised by Castro. We didn't intervene to help or save Batista (though it would have been easy to do), but we didn't help or welcome Castro. It wasn't until months after his acession to power, when he declared himself a "Marxist" and his revolution to be modelled after Soviet Communism, that we found out where we stood.

Indeed until his declaration we were a model of nonintervention - one that might have even pleased the ever critical Msolga. It is interesting to note that the repression both politically and economically of Cubans under their current regieme dwarfs that of Mubarak, who is relatively speaking a mere piker. I suspects she blames the suffering of the Cubans on the U.S. embargo, which simply means we don't lend them money and we don't trade with them (since they are broke had require loans for trade the issue is really moot. I'm sure Olga wouldn't want us to give aid or loans to a government that controls all aspects of it's peoples lives and economic activity - they might even spend it on weapons.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:38 am
5:36pm: There are increasing signs of attempts to open a new front of the protests at the Egyptian parliament.
Live blog: Twitter

This post from @Alshaheeed is being retweeted a lot:

Can as many people as possible go to the Egyptian Parliament now please?

@daliaziada

#Egypt now protesters building tents to sit in outside Parliament building RT @ahmedsamih الخيام تقام امام البرلمان الان #Mubarak #Jan25

@mosaaberizing

Okay, I lied. Can't stay at home with all the exciting news and a possible takeover of the parliment. On my way back to Tahrir..



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The final one made me smile. "exciting news", things happening that can't be missed, etc. Hopefully it all remains peaceful.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:13 pm
@JPB,
Yes, you are, JPB but they're different things, not the same thing repeatedly and they're welcomed by me and others I'm sure.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:27 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob, My memory was indeed faulty on this score. Thanks for putting me straight about Castro. Don't know why I thought the US supported Castro, but the opposite is true - although Castro seems to have had the support of the people at the beginning.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:29 pm
This just tweeted:
Quote:
mohamedahmos Mohamed Ahmos
FREEDOM LOADING ███████████████████░ 99% [ Error : Please remove Mubarak and try again ! ] #Jan25 #Egypt #Mubarak #Tahrir
4 Feb

This might be better appreciated in the geek humor section. Razz
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:33 pm
6:28pm GMT:The well-connected blogger and activist SandMonkey says the former interior minister, Habib el Adly, replaced by Mubarak last week in a move to appease the protesters, is being charged with treason.

6.24pm: I've just been speaking to Ahmed Salah a veteran activist, who has been in Tahrir Square today. Unfortunately the phone line was very poor so I have not posted the audio but here is some of what he said to me:

It's been like nothing I've ever seen. We've had protests before but...today the whole square and the other streets [around the square] were totally packed.

This is a message to the world that this movement is not getting any weaker. This movement is getting stronger and everyone is determined that we cannot accept what is being proposed.

Salah also criticised the western governments he said are propping up a "despotic" regime and said the Egyptian people urgently needed western governments to change their stance to help the people get rid of Mubarak.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:39 pm
from MSNBC's World Blog

Egyptian Vice President Omar Suleiman has ticked off the Obama administration, but the White House is sticking to its position that he's in charge of the transition to a new government that it won't determine.

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs made it clear at his daily briefing for reporters that the administration strongly disagrees with Suleiman's contention that Egypt isn't ready for democracy, calling them "particularly unhelpful comments." In the language of diplomacy, that's a major slam.

In case anyone doubted what that meant, Gibbs declared: "I speak for the president of the United States."

He went on to say, however, that disputes like that "can't be arbitrated by us."

"That's going to be determined by the reaction in Cairo and by the people," he said.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:40 pm
@JPB,
The wishy-washy position from the Obama administration only encourages Mubarak to stay on.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:43 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
In Vietnam we fought a war to defend an allied country facing an organized insurgency and an armed attack by another (North Vietnam), and lost that war, mostly on domestic political grounds.


Lying is simply in your blood, Gob.

Vietnam was an illegal invasion of a sovereign country. In that it was a war crime, followed by war crime after war crime; war crimes that you took part in.

There was no "allied country". The CIA went in there and set up a dictator that was immensely unpopular with the people. That's why the US bombed the **** out of the very people it said it was trying to help, to terrorize them into accepting your dictator.

Then when this great leader wasn't working out so well, the US had him assassinated.

Quote:
The winner, the Communist government of the now combined country, wasted a generation of its unfortunate people in socialist slavery, but is now making modest economic progress, though moving slowly with respect to human rights and freedom.


No mention of the generations wasted by your illegal actions to begin with. Had the US kept its big nose out of Vietnam's affairs, there wouldn't have been a long and protracted battle, there wouldn't be all the children born deformed because of the use, BY THE USA, of chemical weapons.

There wouldn't have been millions killed from the pointed mass murder bombing of civilians. In effect all deaths were of civilians, citizens trying to rid their country of an invading horde.

Odd how you forget to mention the US bombing the **** out of two countries that weren't at all involved.

Odd how you forget that it was the US that kept an illegal embargo for years after the US fled Vietnam and only ended the embargo when you saw that other countries were getting business opportunities that the US wanted. Always the greedy little pigs!

Quote:
Almost 70 years ago the U.S. fought a war in the western and south Pacific region against Japan following their attack on our territory. The need for the South Pacific campaign was the result of Great Britain's unwise decision during WWI to use Japan to seize and control (and retain as it turned out) former German island colonies in the region (something to which the United States objected to at the time), as well as Japan's spectacularly successful aggression against China and the colonial posessions of France, Great Britain, Holland and the U.S. in the region.


Gob: Look at me, look at me, I'm flouting my hypocrisy!

Listen to this, just listen to this, and he says this with no sense of shame whatsoever. Japan decides to follow the lead of the US and European countries in getting its "fair share" of the colonial pie and Gob thinks that's just outrageous.

Japan took those countries, illegally of course, by following a pattern that the US and others had been doing for years. Much is made of the Japanese aggression against China, and aggression it was. But what of the Rape of the Philippines by the USA. The brutality there was similar in nature to what the Japanese did in China.

The US took actions against Japan that went a long way towards causing the Japanese to attack the US. The US never ever would have put up with the same conditions being forced upon it.

Try the truth sometime, Gob. For you it would be a refreshing change.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 01:04 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Your memory is mostly wrong.


As opposed to yours, Gob, which is merely deceitful.

Quote:
We didn't intervene to help or save Batista (though it would have been easy to do), but we didn't help or welcome Castro. It wasn't until months after his acession to power, when he declared himself a "Marxist" and his revolution to be modelled after Soviet Communism, that we found out where we stood.

Indeed until his declaration we were a model of nonintervention - one that might have even pleased the ever critical Msolga.


Her honesty really rubs you the wrong way, doesn't it, Gob?

Here's what Gob thinks is a model of nonintervention.

Quote:
Fulgencio Batista y Zaldívar (Spanish pronunciation: [fulˈxensjo βaˈtista i salˈdiβar]; January 16, 1901 – August 6, 1973) was a Cuban President, dictator, and military leader closely aligned with and supported by the United States. He served as the leader of Cuba from 1933–1944, and 1952–1959, before being overthrown as a result of the Cuban Revolution.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista


Why doesn't anyone call out this lying piece of ****? Cycloptichorn has done it a few times.


Quote:
It is interesting to note that the repression both politically and economically of Cubans under their current regieme dwarfs that of Mubarak, who is relatively speaking a mere piker. I suspects she blames the suffering of the Cubans on the U.S. embargo, which simply means we don't lend them money and we don't trade with them (since they are broke had require loans for trade the issue is really moot.


You lying bastard. It means that the US uses it considerable clout to threaten all countries that trade with Cuba. It is so onerous and illegal that for the last umpteen years the whole world, minus the US and the one or two countries the US threatens, has voted against the US embargo/terrorism against Cuba.


Quote:
I'm sure Olga wouldn't want us to give aid or loans to a government that controls all aspects of it's peoples lives and economic activity - they might even spend it on weapons.


No, she definitely doesn't want you to do that but hypocrite that you are, you apparently haven't noticed that you are describing the normal behavior of the USA.

You really are as dumb as a sack of hoe handles, Gob. You do as good a job of defending the US as BillRM, except that he's much more eloquent.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 02:06 pm
I find this amazingly humorous. The USG was caught off guard because the planning was all done out in the open!

Quote:
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., chairwoman of the Intelligence Committee, says the intelligence community never warned Congress or President Barack Obama that a potential revolution was brewing in Egypt — partly because it wasn't reading Facebook and Twitter.

The performance of the intelligence agencies has been debated since Thursday, when Stephanie O'Sullivan, the Obama administration's nominee for principal deputy director of national intelligence, told the committee that they warned the administration of instability in Egypt at the end of last year.

Several senators on the committee challenged O'Sullivan at the hearing, and in an interview today on MSNBC TV, Feinstein indicated that it wasn't true.

"There was a good deal of intelligence about Tunisia [but] virtually nothing about Egypt," Feinstein told NBC News' Andrea Mitchell. "So there was, to my knowledge, no real warning, either to the White House or, certainly, to the Senate Intelligence Committee or the Congress."

She added that even though the protests apparently were organized in public on Web sites and social media platforms, "I don't believe there was any intelligence on what was happening on Facebook or Twitter or the organizational effort to put these protests together."

But Feinstein hedged a bit when asked whether the episode was an intelligence "failure."

"I would call it a big intelligence wakeup," she said. "... Open-source material has to become much more significant in the analysis of intelligence." MSNBC World Blog
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 02:34 pm
@JPB,
There are whole gov offices dedicated to open-source collection. Facebook is the largest intelligence agency in the world.

A
R
T
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 02:39 pm
This guy is going to be famous.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/bread_helmet.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/04/article-1353713-0D078E92000005DC-768_224x256.jpg

More ingenious head protection

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/04/article-1353713-0D073423000005DC-555_224x256.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/04/article-1353713-0D077036000005DC-911_224x256.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/04/article-1353713-0D06B025000005DC-95_224x256.jpg

ARTICLE
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 04:05 pm
@JPB,
Yikes.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 02/24/2025 at 10:03:54