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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 12:50 pm
Is it true that all countries get their name from egypt?
The word egypt originally connoted "metropolis" or "civilization" and means "country", or "frontier-land".

This is the San Francisco 2/5/11 Iin Solidarity with the Egyptian and Tunisian Revolutions protest and march.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cr9dqRK5v4
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 12:57 pm
@spendius,
I read that too, but I doubt that counts for the majority of the thugs, whose source I of course don't know, though I have suspicions - anything from let out of prison folk, to moonlighting police/military.
JTT
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It's really a stupid feature, meant to appeal to mind of children. All minus votes illustrate is that the post was effective.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:31 pm
This, the following, despite all the posturing, is the mindset of a lot of westerners. It is, again despite all the posturing, the official unspoken policy of the US government. The fact situation illustrates that there is no other rational way to view it.

Huge monetary rewards for a brutal dictator. Promises that that same brutal dictator is safe in his position. Use of that same brutal dictator as a proxy to perform the evil deeds of its minder and benefactor.

Roll out the odd speech to give the illusion that you care and poof, another 30 years goes by, another 30 years where the subjects of the speech on democracy see nothing.

[from Endymion's thread Revolution,

(I'll add the link in a moment}

Quote:
The Egypt protests have exposed the hypocrisy of mealy-mouthed Western commentators

The last time I was on the Moral Maze I was hauled over the coals for saying that political violence – as part of a radical protest, say – is sometimes justifiable. Yet on this week’s Moral Maze, some of the guests had a calm, polite discussion about the possibility of enacting a far more massive form of political violence against the freedom-hungry people of Egypt. One of the guests, Professor David Cesarani, floated the idea of there being a Tiananmen Square-style massacre in Egypt as a way of quelling potential post-Mubarak anarchy. And there has been no outrage. No Twitterstorm, no blog-based apoplexy, no heated radio phone-ins. Perhaps talking about the massacre of Egyptians is normal these days.
Professor Cesarani was asked by Michael Portillo about the “moral dilemma” of how to deal with what comes after Mubarak. What if it’s worse than Mubarak? Should it be crushed? Professor Cesarani said that if one takes the “wholly pragmatic view”, then “the outcome of a Tiananmen Square-style crackdown is desirable and is predictable”. Because, he said, “if you allow this popular democratic movement to run on unchecked, you cannot predict what’s going to happen. But you can predict probably that after a short, sharp, massive clampdown at huge human cost, there will be a sullen stability.”
Portillo was startled. “Quite a lot of people would be quite shocked to hear what you said – that a Tiananmen-style outcome would be desirable.” Cesarani responded that “the West is no longer weeping that much over Tiananmen Square because we’re doing a lot of business with China. So, many business interests would say, quietly, that, perhaps, well the way in which the Chinese managed their transition was preferable.” Another panellist, Matthew Taylor, former adviser to Tony Blair and now chief executive of the Royal Society of Arts, later described Cesarani’s comments on Tiananmen Square as “incredibly brave” and said: “In a way, I can see his argument.”
There you have it. Faced with a mass uprising for democracy in the Middle East, the instinctive reaction of some sections of polite society in Britain is to panic, to fret about anarchy, about “another Iran”, and to hint that maybe a violent crackdown will be required. Variations on this theme have appeared across the sphere of political commentary, including amongst those who supported the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan on the (entirely mad) basis that these invasions would “deliver democracy” to the Middle East and Central Asia. Now that real people in the Middle East are agitating for democracy, and might actually win it, suddenly “democracy” has become a dirty word. It’s too “unchecked”, too unpredictable, too chaotic, and not such a good idea for those strange brown people after all. Maybe a strongman will have to intervene and impose order.
This is one of the brilliant things about the inspiring uprising in Egypt: it has not only exposed the illegitimacy of the Mubarak regime, but also the BS behind recent Western campaigns to “deliver democracy” to the Middle East. Because the very same politicians and commentators who talked about “democratising” Iraq now stare in horror, mouths agape, at the Egyptian masses demanding their democratic rights. That’s because these fear-wracked observers don’t understand what real democracy is. And when they see it, in all its noisiness and rowdiness and unpredictability, it terrifies them.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100074767/the-egypt-protests-have-exposed-the-hypocrisy-of-mealy-mouthed-western-commentators/



JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:38 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
There you have it. Faced with a mass uprising for democracy in the Middle East, the instinctive reaction of some sections of polite society in Britain is to panic, to fret about anarchy, about “another Iran”, and to hint that maybe a violent crackdown will be required. Variations on this theme have appeared across the sphere of political commentary, including amongst those who supported the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan on the (entirely mad) basis that these invasions would “deliver democracy” to the Middle East and Central Asia. Now that real people in the Middle East are agitating for democracy, and might actually win it, suddenly “democracy” has become a dirty word. It’s too “unchecked”, too unpredictable, too chaotic, and not such a good idea for those strange brown people after all. Maybe a strongman will have to intervene and impose order.
This is one of the brilliant things about the inspiring uprising in Egypt: it has not only exposed the illegitimacy of the Mubarak regime, but also the BS behind recent Western campaigns to “deliver democracy” to the Middle East. Because the very same politicians and commentators who talked about “democratising” Iraq now stare in horror, mouths agape, at the Egyptian masses demanding their democratic rights.


Yep.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:47 pm
@JTT,
Are we seeing the fall of the western empire, kind of like the fall of the roman empire?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:48 pm
8:44pm GMT+2: Ahmad Nagib, one of the organisers of the protests in Tahrir Square told Al Jazeera: "We are not scared of being martyred, but we don't want to be shot at the back by state security."

We will continue to protest in Tahrir Squrae until he [Mubarak] steps down. It is safer for us to camp out here in the open, some of our friends that left the Square were kidnapped and tortured inside the museum by state security.

We are still resilient and we will carry on, real democracy can only be achieved by involving all of us in any talks, but any talks will happen after Mubarak leaves. Our voices have not been represented, and we call for the Egyptian state TV to be prosecuted for playing an instrumental part in inciting hatred towards us and encouraging the 'baltageya' thugs to attack us.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:50 pm
@JTT,
Sorry, I was too late to edit. Here's the link to Endymion's thread, Revolution, a veritable treasure trove of shining the light where it's needed most.

http://able2know.org/topic/81165-1
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:52 pm
5:22pm GMT: The UK prime minister David Cameron spoke to Egypt's vice president today and continued to urge immediate tangible reforms, the Press Association reports.

Prime Minister David Cameron today urged Egypt's vice-president Omar Suleiman to take "bold and credible steps" towards an "irreversible" transition in the crisis-hit country.
In a call with Mr Suleiman today Mr Cameron said the authorities needed to show the promised reforms were "urgent and real".

He revealed details of the call in a statement to MPs, in which the prime minister also called for a more "hard-headed" approach to European assistance in future in the light of the record of the Egyptian government:

The EU needs to look hard at its role in this region. We have spent billions of pounds, of euros, of taxpayers' money in Egypt and in neighbouring countries with carefully crafted association agreements and action plans. We've offered funds, access to our markets and other assistance in exchange for progress on the rule of law, democracy and human rights.
But in Egypt there has been little or no progress on torture, the judiciary, democracy or ending a state of emergency that has lasted for 30 years. I believe it is time for Europe to take a more hard-headed approach, where the conditions on which we give money are real and insisted upon. I reaffirmed this message in a call at lunchtime today with vice-president Suleiman and urged him to take bold and credible steps to show the transition they are talking about in Egypt is irreversible, urgent and real.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:54 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
We will continue to protest in Tahrir Squrae until he [Mubarak] steps down. It is safer for us to camp out here in the open, some of our friends that left the Square were kidnapped and tortured inside the museum by state security.


Does someone wish to step up and tell us that the US/the UK don't know that this is happening? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if some CIA/M[whatever] folks aren't sitting in on the action.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:56 pm
6:50pm GMT: Barack Obama has said Egypt is "making progress" on meeting the requirements of the international community. The US president made the brief comment in response to a reporter's question. The Egyptian vice president Omar Suleiman has begun talks with opponents of the Mubarak regime but many of the protesters, and those who claim to represent them, have said there can be no progress until the president stands down.



And there you have it. Egypt is "making progress" on meeting the demands of the international community while ignoring those of the protesters responsible for the uprising.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 02:05 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Prime Minister David Cameron today urged Egypt's vice-president Omar Suleiman to take "bold and credible steps" towards an "irreversible" transition in the crisis-hit country.
In a call with Mr Suleiman today Mr Cameron said the authorities needed to show the promised reforms were "urgent and real".


Obviously, the USA hasn't cornered the market on hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 02:10 pm
@Endymion,
A thing of folly is a joke forever...
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 02:22 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
If you really want to talk about rape, ask black women...they want the white man back at least they were safe in those days.

There were no rapes of black women when the whites were in power. Pull the other one.

Quote:
You have been brainwashed by lefties.


You surrendered your brain when you entered the military. Talk about brainwashing - 24 years of "Do this" "Yes Sir" has obviously taken a huge toll.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 02:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Endymion let you off easy, Finn, way too easy.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 02:25 pm
@ossobuco,
The point of my post had nothing to do with who were Mubarak's thugs and who were not. It had to do with instant conclusions based on nothing and the way in which Media rushed to the judgement it wanted to rush to. As did the protesters.

I did see one of the riders pulled off his horse and kicked and beaten by a group of men in the absence of "due process".

What Mubarak thug would ride into that crowd?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 02:33 pm
@spendius,
That is a good question Spendius {What Mubarak thug would ride into that crowd?}

I have a question also," Who would take horses and camels and try to ride them threw thousands of people?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 02:43 pm

10:07pm GMT+2:
Wael Ghonim, head of Google's Middle East operations, has been released by Egyptian security forces, he spoke to Egyptian On TV about his ordeal.

"I regret the human loss, from the beginning we said that we want peaceful protests, we will rebuild our country."

"Please don't turn me into a hero, don't turn the focus away from the people who are still out in the streets."
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 02:59 pm
@spendius,
Ah. Ok.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 03:01 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Please don't turn me into a hero, don't turn the focus away from the people who are still out in the streets."
I am not the slightest bit aware of why he should be made a hero...did he do something?? So far as I know all he did was manage to get himself detained in Egypt last week, which was not exactly a challenge.
 

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