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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 08:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Now that would be a real "revolution", ci.!
Real, positive change in the lives of desperate people.
Beats "regime change" any day!
We can dream, I guess .....
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 08:59 pm
@realjohnboy,
Good night, rjb.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:08 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
It's this kind of arrogance, coupled with the brutality, the crimes against humanity visited on so many innocents that makes people hate the US. It shouldn't be this way, but the fault clearly lies with y'all.

Are we talking about the protests in Tunesia, Egypt, and Yemen still? I'm fairly positive that no matter how we have negatively contributed to their country's state of affairs, they are protesting their government regimes, not the US. For someone who lectures about how the USA like to selfishly make itself the center of attention, you sure like to take the attention away from the people and put it squarely on the USA.

It's our fault, JTT. You should be in Cairo right now educating the Egyptians, bless their hearts. What fools to focus on their own government when they should be focused on the US.

Only arrogance puts the USA as the centerpiece of every international affair? Hmm... interesting.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:10 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
You say this like a normal American, ie. "It's a god-given mandate that we are entitled to stick our noses anywhere we please and when we say jump, everyone must ask, "How high?".

I am not about that...I want to know why when we give so much money to them and why when we spend so much on intel and why when our military claims to be so close to their military and the White House makes a big deal about how valuable this is to America...why after all that do we not have a clue what the nature of the Egyptian military is? What have be been buying with all of that investment of time and money that we act like we know about the same detail on the Egyptian military and we do about the North Koreans??

I dont think it is that the Americans are just doing a better than normal job of keeping secret because the experts all claim that nobody understands the military. In the bigger picture....how many times does American Intel need to completely fail to function in spite of all of the money that we spend on it before we decide to fix it?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:12 pm
@fbaezer,
(smile)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:13 pm
@JTT,
Of course it was humor, dumbass. Jeez. Take your meds.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Incredible, wonderful image.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:47 pm
Growing concerns about the safety of foreign journalists & human rights workers in Egypt & their ability to safely carry out their work ..:

Quote:

Egypt cracks down on foreign journalists

Harriet Sherwood in Alexandria, Sam Jones and agencies
The Guardian, Friday 4 February 2011


Members of international media and human rights groups arrested, attacked and beaten in intimidation campaign

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/2/3/1296763482309/Foreign-journalists-and-E-007.jpg
Foreign journalists and Egyptian anti-goverment protesters take cover during clashes Egyptian anti-goverment protesters and foreign journalists take cover during clashes with pro-Mubarak demonstrators in Cairo. Photograph: Miguel Medina/AFP/Getty Images

Dozens of foreign journalists were arrested, attacked and beaten yesterday as the Egyptian government and its supporters embarked on what the US state department called a concerted campaign to intimidate the international media.

Human rights workers also fell victim to crowd violence, while police raided the offices of two groups in Cairo, the Hisham Mubarak Law Centre and the Centre for Economic and Social Rights, and arrested observers. Amnesty International said one of its staff was detained at the law centre, with a Human Rights Watch colleague.

A group of reporters from Daily News Egypt, an independent, English-language paper, were among those targeted. They were set upon by a group of passers-by in Dokki, west of the Nile, that quickly swelled into a 50-strong crowd after they ventured out of their offices to investigate a story about rising petrol prices.

"It was terrifying," said Amira Ahmed, the publication's business editor. "They were chanting: 'We've found the foreigners, don't let them go,' and calling us traitors and spies. When I pointed out to them that I was Egyptian, they responded: 'Your Egypt isn't the same as ours.'"

Like many who were caught up in similar incidents today, Ahmed said the most chilling part of the encounter was the mob mentality that took hold. "We had one French journalist with us who we managed to put in a taxi and get to safety. But the people who were showing up had no idea why we were the targets. They just took up the cry of 'foreigners' and 'journalists' and joined in. There was no leader we could appeal to for reason."

Ahmed and her companions agreed to be handed over to the army to avoid provoking any more violence. On the way, they were followed by men on motorbikes and one youth who clung to the trunk of their cab. The army took custody of them and released them without harm. "I've never felt unsafe in Egypt before. I always felt that if anything ever happened to me on the street here, other Egyptians would come in to protect me," said Ahmed.

"But today was different and it was horrible. There was no logic to any of it; people are divided and people are raging, and they're casting out for targets to direct that rage against."

The Egyptian interior ministry arrested more than 20 foreign journalists in Cairo, including the Washington Post's bureau chief and a photographer. Al-Jazeera said three of its journalists were detained.

In Egypt's second city, Alexandria, locals said Egypt's national television channel had warned viewers to beware of Israeli agents masquerading as journalists and seeking to damage the country's image and national interest.

On the streets, it was impossible to interview protesters without a crowd gathering, shouting accusations and jabbing fingers. One western TV crew was threatened in a residential area away from the scene of protests, with angry residents beating the roof of their car and refusing to allow the team to enter an apartment building. Egyptians acting as fixers to western journalists were also accused of being Zionists.

A hotel in central Alexandria being used as a base by reporters has been threatened at least twice in the past week by angry protesters. Journalists were warned against filming or taking photographs from hotel balconies of protests below.

The antipathy to the media appeared to extend to both opponents and supporters of the regime.

The US state department spokesman PJ Crowley wrote on Twitter: "There is a campaign to intimidate international journalists in Cairo and interfere with their reporting. We condemn such actions."

A little later, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs described the "systematic targeting" of journalists in Egypt as unacceptable, and called for those detained to be freed.

The leaders of France, Germany, Britain, Italy and Spain said in a joint statement that the "attacks against journalists are completely unacceptable". ...<cont>


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/egypt-media-crackdown-foreign-journalists
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:51 pm
Quote:
America has had its Mideast moments, not the least when Obama took office in 2009, pledging a new era in U.S. relations with the Muslim world. But the administration's failure to sustain a viable Israeli-Palestinian peace process or to persuade Israel to stop building settlements on land claimed by Palestinians has bitterly disappointed those who had hoped Obama would bring change, said Rami Khouri, director of the Fares Institute of Public Policy and International Affairs at the American University of Beirut.
.
.
.
That Egyptians are now at the head of the region's long-suppressed demand for democratization comes in spite of, not because of, the United States, Khouri said.

"Nobody's listening to America anymore," he said. "It's become irrelevant."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/03/AR2011020306882_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2011020302787

I do believe that I said that....
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:55 pm
I am very worried for the press there. I hope that they stay safe and that they don't leave. Although, if they did leave, I wouldn't judge them. It seems pretty damn scary. I can't recall the last time I heard about US media being assaulted. This is probably largely to do with our media being very hands off with global events. I'm glad they are in the fray so that the US can see and hear what is happening.

A
R
T
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:58 pm
@failures art,
That Mulbarak is responsible for what's happening to the media people reveals he's a tyrant. Why would the US continue to support him?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 10:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
That Mulbarak is responsible for what's happening to the media people reveals he's a tyrant
This comes as news to you Shocked

I thought that we all were aware with how well he attended his studies at dictator school by way of his performance over the last 30 years...
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 10:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
"Nobody's listening to America anymore,"


Except that (according to a media report I posted here earlier) .... the Egyptian vice-president, Omar Suleiman, apparently is listening & talking with the Obama administration ...

(Note: this is not to argue with the other sentiments expressed in the article you've posted.)

Quote:

The Obama administration is working on a plan in which the Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak, would stand down immediately in spite of claims yesterday he was intent on clinging on to power until the elections in the autumn.

The White House, the state department and the Pentagon have been involved in discussions that include an option in which Mubarak would given way to a transitional government headed by the Egyptian vice-president, Omar Suleiman. Such a plan has the backing of the Egyptian military, the New York Times reported.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/egypt-regime-death-toll-tahrir
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 10:11 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
Some officials said there was not yet any indication that either Mr. Suleiman or the Egyptian military was willing to abandon Mr. Mubarak.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world/middleeast/04diplomacy.html

that is that actual quote from the NYT's...in other words Obama is talking but he is not sure that anyone is listening

The Guardian has it wrong msolga
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 10:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm aware of the NYT's article (which the Guardian quoted.).
I don't believe the Guardian article "got it wrong".
However, I doubt you'd argue that the Obama administration is not attempting to exert it's influence?
We will have to see what eventuates, hawkeye, to ascertain how much influence the US actually actually does have over Mr Suleiman, who is "backed by Lt. Gen. Sami Enan, chief of the Egyptian armed forces, and Field Marshal Mohamed Tantawi, the defense minister".

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is discussing with Egyptian officials a proposal for President Hosni Mubarak to resign immediately, turning over power to a transitional government headed by Vice President Omar Suleiman with the support of the Egyptian military, administration officials and Arab diplomats said Thursday. ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world/middleeast/04diplomacy.html

If Mr Suleiman should become the new president of Egypt, I think we can safely deduce that the US still has influence.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 10:50 pm
@msolga,
However, Mr Suleiman also said this, on Thursday.

So apparently he can negotiate with the US about becoming Mubarak's replacement, while supporting Mubarak's leadership at the same time.

Go figure where he actually stands.

Quote:
Egypt's vice-president has said protesters calling for the departure of Hosni Mubarak, the president, are not "part of the Egyptian culture", saying "we all respect Mubarak as father and leader".

Omar Suleiman made the comments during an interview with state television on Thursday, in which he also said recent violence in Cairo, the capital, could have been the result of a "conspiracy".

"We will look into [the violence], into the fact it was a conspiracy," he said.

At least 13 people have been killed in clashes in Tahrir (Liberation) Square, central Cairo, as violence continues between pro-government groups and pro-democracy protesters.

Suleiman called on the protesters to end their 10-day demonstration, saying the government had now met their demands for reform, adding that the call for Mubarak to step down would be a "call for chaos".

"End your sit-in. Your demands have been answered," said Omar Suleiman.

Suleiman: Mubarak is our father:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/2011231756869465.html
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 10:55 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
This is probably largely to do with our media being very hands off with global events. I'm glad they are in the fray so that the US can see and hear what is happening.


Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 11:04 pm
@msolga,




thanks for that.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 11:19 pm
@msolga,
I believe Hillary has been talking to the government heads in Egypt; we just don't know what she said or who she talked to.
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 11:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Since those talks the NYT & the Guardian reported on, ci?
0 Replies
 
 

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