@Ceili,
You can repeat it a million times if you'd, like but your posts prove otherwise.
As George ably pointed out, no one was making the arguments you are criticizing.
George originally indicated that fomenting democracy in the Middle East was one of the reasons for the Iraqi invasion, and it was.
Lash indicated that what is happening in North Africa right now is an outcome contemplated by George Bush's professed strategy for the region, and it is.
Neither of these comments credit America or Bush with the movement in Egypt for democratic reform, although since you believe the internet has opened the eyes of ordinary Egyptians to the rest of the world, isn't it possible that some of them have seen that Iraq is an admittedly imperfect democracy, but no longer a dictatorship?
Your insistence that America has had nothing to do with these events is almost as ridiculous as any claim that it is the sole cause.
I can tell it chaps your butt that America keeps coming up in this thread but there are a few simple reasons why:
1) Many if not most of the A2k membership is American
2) America and Egypt have been close allies for decades and the US has paid almost $3billion a year for that relationship. The Egyptian military is the main player in the Egyptian drama and if you think they couldn't care less about $3B a year, you're ignorant.
3) As much as it galls you, America is a Big Dog, if not
the Big Dog, in the world, and as you have been quick to point out, has helped to created the situation that exists in Egypt. Whatever government emerges after the drama plays out, you can bet your life that it will be thinking about America, either as a source of continued aid or as a possible threat. Will it be their prime concern, no, but it will be on the list, just as what China is thinking is on the list of South Korean concerns, or what Russia is thinking is on the list of Ukrainian concerns. The difference of course is that there is a good chance the new government will be allied with America.
Your conclusion that I do "not believe in other nations or their people rising up and fighting for what they want," is simply another one you've leaped to in order to support your spurious arguments.
The fact that I am pessimistic about the current reform movement in Egypt is evidence not of American jingoism, but of an intention to consider all the facts and not become intoxicated by what appears to be quite a noble effort.
If you wish to cheer the Egyptians on, be my guest. I hope they prove me wrong. It's childish though to get irritated with anyone who doesn't join in your cheerleading, and quite telling when you convert your irritation into yet another anti-American rant.
One last comment on Iraq, of course no one can prove that without the US invasion the people of Iraq would not have risen up and overthrown Saddam, but your argument was that it was likely to have happened without the invasion. You made this argument not so much to declare your confidence in the human spirit of freedom, but of an intense desire to deny any credit at all to America.
