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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 07:15 pm
@spendius,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfjn7SA1vWM
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 08:24 pm
@reasoning logic,
RL, there are some youtube videos available on what you requested at,

http://able2know.org/topic/138895-28

on page 28. I'll also post the links here:

Hidden stories of the korean war 1/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7yqwElsbow&feature=related

Hidden stories of the korean war 2/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=963EI6oQ1Dk&NR=1

Hidden stories of the korean war 3/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhF2WsKPvmk&NR=1

Hidden stories of the korean war 4/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyotEHFvG5Y&NR=1

Hidden stories of the korean war 5/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVBuGc6DIjk&feature=related
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:18 am
Libya: Allied air strikes secure Misrata for rebels

Quote:
Siege ends in key town as bombs destroy Gaddafi's tanks and artillery but regime continue to hold Ajdabiya despite air raids.

Nearly 12 hours of allied air strikes have broken the Libyan regime's five-day bloody assault on the key rebel-held town of Misrata.

Residents said the aerial bombardment destroyed tanks and artillery and sent many of Muammar Gaddafi's forces fleeing from Misrata, ending a siege and attack by the regime that cost nearly 100 lives from random shelling, snipers and bitter street fighting.

Mohammed Ali, an IT engineer at Misrata's main hospital, said that waves of air strikes began shortly after midnight on Wednesday.

"They bombed a lot of sites of the Gaddafi army. There is a former hospital where his tanks were based. All the tanks and the hospital were destroyed. A column of tanks was destroyed on the edge of the city," he said. "After that there was no shelling. We are very relieved. We are very grateful. We want to thank the world. The Gaddafi forces are scattered around. All that is left is the snipers and our fighters can take care of them."

Ali said people in Misrata wanted the coalition to keep up the air strikes until all Gaddafi's forces were driven away from the town to ensure that those who were able to escape with armoured vehicles and guns did not return.

A doctor in the town, who did not want to be named, said snipers were continuing to sow fear by targeting not only rebels but civilians.

"The sniper problem is a big one. A lot of people are still afraid to leave their homes," he said.

The apparent breaking of the siege will be a blow to the Libyan ruler's attempts to reassert control over the entire west of the country.

It may also serve as a further deterrent, along with the destruction of Gaddafi's tanks, artillery and soldiers that were attacking Benghazi, to those still fighting for the dictator.

But it did not stop the regime's forces from continuing to put up stiff resistance around the strategic town of Ajdabiya in the east, despite repeated coalition bombing raids.

Ali described the past five days of attack on Misrata as "hell".

"It was crazy in the last five days. The hospital was overwhelmed. Ninety four people were killed. Sixty of them were civilians. Whole families were wiped out driving in their cars," he said. "The injured were more than 1,300. About 115 serious cases were kept in hospital. Everyone without life threatening injures was sent home. I've seen people who've just had a leg amputated sent home."

Ali said that the town has had no water or electricity for nine days. The medical centre is running on a generator.

The air strikes in and around Misrata suggest that what appears to be a tactic of Gaddafi's forces to shelter in residential areas, in response to the destruction of tanks and guns on the open desert road near Benghazi, has not provided protection. Residents of the town said that the coalition aircraft managed to destroy the regime's armour without any known civilian casualties.

The revolutionary leadership has said that even if there are civilian casualties, they will be a necessary price to prevent even greater loss of life if Gaddafi's forces had continued their assault on Misrata and exacted revenge against the residents for their support of the uprising.

The US military said that its intelligence showed Gaddafi's forces remained a threat to Misrata as well as remaining entrenched around Ajdabiya, where the regime's fighters have put up sustained resistance for three days despite several air attacks by coalition planes.

Rear Admiral Gerard Hueber, chief of staff of operation Odyssey Dawn, said the coalition would continue its attacks on Gaddafi's ground forces in both places as well as other cities under assault by the regime. Hueber said the air attacks were aimed at preventing the regime's army from entering rebel-held cities as well as cutting supply and communication lines. But he admitted that Gaddafi's forces were making incursions into some cities and targeting civilians.

People fleeing Ajdabiya said that civilians continued to be killed in the town even though most of the residents have left.

Hamad Abdul Rahim drove along a desert track with his mother, wife and children, including two young daughters, crammed into a car to escape the town on Wednesday.

"There was a lot of shelling last night. There are hundreds of Gaddafi men there. Many of them are not from Libya. They are African people. We saw them," he said. "Many people have died. Some were shot on the street by Gaddafi's men."

The regime's army continued to keep the rebels at bay just outside the town with periodic shelling of the revolutionaries' front line, some of it intense. An ambulance driver described carrying away two dead rebels who were on the back of a pick-up truck with a mounted machine gun when they took a direct hit from a shell.

The rebels say they are waiting for allied air strikes to destroy the tanks and artillery Gaddafi has around Ajdabiya before they attempt to take the town.

Gaddafi's forces also kept up their bombardment of Zintan in the west.

"The town is completely surrounded. The situation is very bad," the resident, Abdulrahman, told Reuters by telephone from the town. "They are getting reinforcements. Troops backed with tanks and vehicles are coming. We appeal to the allied forces to come and protect civilians."

Hueber found himself in difficulty when questioned about whether the US was co-ordinating its attacks with rebel forces, which might be in breach of the UN mandate.

Initially, he confirmed that US forces were consulting the rebels about their movements but later in the press conference he backtracked, saying: "I mis-stated that".

He said that the US had communication lines to the Gaddafi regime warning them to pull back their forces.

British aircraft flew over Libya yesterday, but for the second day running took no part in attacks, according to defence officials.

The commander of British aircraft operating over Libya has said that Colonel Gaddafi's air force "no longer exists as a fighting force".

Air Vice-Marshal Greg Bagwell said the allies could now operate "with near impunity" over the skies of Libya.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:41 am
@spendius,
Quote:
You miss my point revelette. If there is a demand for the strong man to step down, which is from your quote, and which is generally recognised anyway, then it would have existed in Iraq even if not articulated. And the intervention by the coalition would have articulated it.

That the demand has been articulated now must mean that Gadaffi was more liberal than Saddam was.


Actually you miss the point entirely, not surprising really. The point is that if we had taken it upon our selves to knock out Qaddafi without the will of the Libyan people initiating their own desire to overthrow their dictator, then it would have been a western nation invading another Arab country thrusting their own will on the people in Libya. Iraq was not in the midst of protest and a civil war when we invaded their country. We simply went into Iraq on the pretext of WMD and then set up our own version of a interim government. We controlled their country through our military and contractors.

If after Qaddafi is finished, the french or whoever, takes over their government and country, then it would in fact be like Iraq and I imagine, we would quickly find ourselves resented and for good reason. I guess it is a fine line between helping and taking over control.

I don't know what you mean by the last statement. Qaddafi is a little bit liberal I guess in the manner in which he dresses (probably would have been suited as a Hollywood actor or something) , but he is a typical dictator.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 10:04 am
@revelette,
Quote:
Iraq was not in the midst of protest and a civil war when we invaded their country. We simply went into Iraq on the pretext of WMD and then set up our own version of a interim government. We controlled their country through our military and contractors.


The very definition of a war crime and terrorism, right, Rev?

So where is the justice to come for the Iraqi people?

Where are the threads with various and sundry Americans [present company excepted] prancing around making great pretense that they believe in freedom and justice for all?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 10:11 am
@revelette,
Whatever anybody wishes to call this non-war is deluding themselves into thinking we are the saviors of the Libyan people. Nothing could be further from the truth; it's a civil war that we should have stayed away from. Now that we are involved, we will be accused of many crimes - rightfully so.

Obama is a dupe.
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 01:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
NATO will take over from the U.S. in running the Libyan adventure as early as today according to reports.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 01:44 pm
@realjohnboy,
It's an adventure, all right! It's going to be a roller-coaster ride that will not live too long as the leader of anything!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 02:36 pm
Mightn't this not illustrate that at least Obama isn't a brain dead swaggering idiot cowboy?
Irishk
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 02:43 pm
@realjohnboy,
CNN is reporting that they were getting close to an agreement and the Sec'y General of the UN was going to make an address, but then Turkey got miffed and walked out of the meeting, and the Sec'y General cancelled his address. Turkey went back in where they're still hashing over the 'details', but the CNN anchor said they'll probably go home tonight without a definite conclusion to report.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 03:02 pm
@JTT,
Yes, but once Obama stepped in the mud, cleaning the shoes is much harder.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 03:04 pm
@Irishk,
You mean we'll have to be in a war because Turkey won't? No wonder they call them turkeys.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 03:08 pm
@roger,
Now, roger, that was funny! However, in light of Turkey's history, I'm not so sure that applies to that particular country.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 03:18 pm
I just found this article on the AP website...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_SYRIA?SITE=KLIF&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Apparently the rebellions and protests around the middle east have now moved into Syria.

Quote:
DARAA, Syria (AP) -- The Syrian government pledged Thursday to consider lifting some of the Mideast's most repressive laws in an attempt to stop a week-long uprising in a southern city from spreading and threatening its nearly 50-year rule.

The promises were immediately rejected by many activists who called for demonstrations around the country on Friday in response to a crackdown that protesters say killed dozens of anti-government marchers in the city of Daraa.

"We will not forget the martyrs of Daraa," a resident told The Associated Press by telephone. "If they think this will silence us they are wrong."


This could get real interesting if Syria goes the way of Egypt.


spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 03:31 pm
@mysteryman,
By becoming the air force of the rebels in Libya our coalition is bound to encourage others. Perhaps that's the general idea. It is difficult to imagine it being unforseen.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:11 pm
CNN reporting an agreement was finally reached that NATO will enforce the no-fly zone over Libya. Apparently Turkey has agreed; their main concerns appear to have been the 'time-line' of the transition (they wanted it sooner rather than later) and the coalition conceivably going beyond the scope of the UN resolution, a criticism they've made about the excessive bombing in recent days.

Rasmussen, the NATO Sec'y General, says transfer of command and control will take 'a couple of days'.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:13 pm
@Irishk,
What is interesting, at least to me, about this transfer of power to NATO is the simple fact that all members must agree. I'm not sure how large NATO is, but when have we seen cooperation between all countries on anything?

I'm counting days, not weeks.
Irishk
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
They didn't agree on everything. Only the no-fly zone. The U.S. is still leading the coalition on the 'protection of Libyan civilians'. Rasmussen said they're still deliberating on whether or not NATO will expand it's role to control that as well, but a decision probably wouldn't be reached for 'several more days'. I think Turkey will probably be the sticking point on that decision, as well.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:22 pm
@Irishk,
Thanks, Irishk. NPR and the AP - quoting different sources - reported agreement but then backed off later in the afternoon.
NATO needed all 28 members to sign off on this. I assume Obama had them all lined up before this began, albeit with some of them doing some posturing at the end.
He's been taking heat about leading this international effort from some (but not all) Dems and Repubs. This should take a lot of air out of those objections.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Now that we are involved, we will be accused of many crimes - rightfully so.
Look at this dribble ! If the USA is involved then it MUST be guilty of war crimes.....do you understand the concept of a trial ? Your knowledge is all encompassing, isnt it ?

You and JoinTalibanTerrorism are gods on high....judging and condemning before the actions .
 

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