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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 08:51 am
@revelette,
I don't know that you can say that revelette without consideration of alternative outcomes. Suppose Gadaffi doesn't defend his regime.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 10:02 am
@spendius,
That's a big "suppose" that's not rational.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 10:14 am
@spendius,
Quote:
I don't know that you can say that revelette without consideration of alternative outcomes. Suppose Gadaffi doesn't defend his regime.


If he does not defend his regime then I imagine he will face charges at some point for firing weapons on Libyan citizens. The situation in Libya did not start with armed extremist taking up arms against the government. It started after Qaddafi brutally cracked down on peaceful protesters. Those protesters then took up arms, but they were not trained and any successes they had quickly evaporated by Pro Qaddafi forces. They wanted a no-fly zone because they were getting destroyed with Qaddafi's tanks and jets. The Arab League wanted a fly-zone though they seemed not know what that might entail and went back and forth on it with today reaffirming that they want a no fly zone.

Hopefully, Gates is correct and this effort can be turned over to "others."

Operation "Odyssey Dawn" - Libya #2
Quote:

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday that the U.S. expects to turn control of the Libya military mission over to a coalition -- probably headed either by the French and British or by NATO -- "in a matter of days." . . .

Gates said President Barack Obama felt very strongly about limiting America's role in the operation, adding that the president is "more aware than almost anybody of the stress on the military."

"We agreed to use our unique capabilities and the breadth of those capabilities at the front of this process, and then we expected in a matter of days to be able to turn over the primary responsibility to others," Gates told reporters traveling with him to Russia. "We will continue to support the coalition, we will be a member of the coalition, we will have a military role in the coalition, but we will not have the preeminent role."

The two key possibilities, he said, are a combined British-French command or the use of a NATO command. He acknowledged there is "some sensitivity on the part of the Arab League to being seen to be operating under a NATO umbrella."


a better source with more details
talk72000
 
  2  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 01:58 pm
Quote:
Yemen leader under pressure as generals and officials quit


http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/21/yemen.protests/index.html

It is getting dangerous.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 01:59 pm
@talk72000,
Similarly in Bahrain, Talk.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 02:00 pm
@realjohnboy,
And Syria.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 02:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
That's a big "suppose" that's not rational.


Why is it not rational? He was in Venezuela supposedly and for 24 hours nobody expressed any surprise. Then South Africa and Zimbabwe were discussed by leading commentators in a serious way. Your president and Sec. of State practically ordered him to fold his hand. As have many others. I suggested London. Nobody laughed.

You not being up to speed does not translate into me not being rational although I am aware that it does for you.

It's so bloody rational that most of us would have gone with a few billion. It's irrational to stay in my opinion. You are talking big after the result is in like one of your anti-ID claque did once on a football result.

You're irrational.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 02:20 pm
@spendius,
Different country, different leader, and a whole slew of other issues.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 02:29 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
They wanted a no-fly zone because they were getting destroyed with Qaddafi's tanks and jets.


So is it the case that all protesters have to do when being repressed with violence or threat of it is send for us to impose a no-fly and no-drive zone. We ducked out on the Russians and Chinese a few times.

It looks bad revelette. Going after a tiddler for a supposed reason which was not even considered with the big boys. It looks like bullying to me and by spouting nonsense about humanitarianism we get the moral high ground as well. In High Noon Gary Cooper went up a weight division--not down five. Jack Palance did the superior fire-power thing in Shane with the sod-buster.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 02:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Different country, different leader, and a whole slew of other issues.


That's the equivalent of slipping out of the door carrying your shoes in your hand.

What different country? Eh?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 02:39 pm
@spendius,
spendi, Look at the world map; you'll find that Libya is in the area where most of the uprising are taking place to change their government, but Gadaffi is more brutal than the other leaders of the Middle East and North Africa. Nobody knows how far he will go to defend his so-called government.

You wrote,
Quote:
Suppose Gadaffi doesn't defend his regime.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 03:09 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
If he does not defend his regime then I imagine he will face charges at some point for firing weapons on Libyan citizens.


Who might bring those charges?
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 03:18 pm
@JTT,
The world court? LOL
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 04:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
spendi, Look at the world map; you'll find that Libya is in the area where most of the uprising are taking place to change their government, but Gadaffi is more brutal than the other leaders of the Middle East and North Africa. Nobody knows how far he will go to defend his so-called government.


Are you alright ci.? You are jumping around. First you said I was irrational for talking about G. giving up. Using hindsight as he hasn't yet. I explained why you were irrational. In that explanation I mentioned 4 other countries that highly paid and well connected experts had speculated on TV at some length that he might retire to and you respond--

Quote:
Different country, different leader, and a whole slew of other issues.


When I'm astounded at that stupidity and ask you which other country you tell me to look at a world map. And I've been to Libya. On duty. I wouldn't dream of going to a dump like that otherwise. You follow that utter stupidity with some assertions you have got off telly and you cap it off with a vacuity like "nobody knows".

Your problem is that your habit of reducing complexities to simplisms you can spout about will always lead to absurdity because things are not so simple as you like to imagine at your shifting convenience.

I think too many of our media people swooned at Rebel Without a Cause and Easy Rider type tripe and it is possible that Rupert Murdoch types are intelligent enough to realise that they are rebels without a cause. So there's an unconscious bias towards rebels who in this case are Libyans.

Suppose G. kept most of the dough locked up because he daren't risk handing it out at the rate it was being made to Libyans. They might freak out. Like us.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 04:41 pm
@spendius,
spendi, There is no indication of Gaddafi giving up; or do you have some inside information that nobody else knows about?

He's now in the position that if he gives up, he'll be tried as a criminal who has killed his own people. Even though we are not sure who will be bringing the charges to fruition, that is a reality he must face.

By all indications, there is nothing to suggest he will give up his power voluntarily. That's only some babble that's invented from great imagination that a few of you possess; it's nothing close to reality to most observers of this conflict.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There is every indication that G will give up. He's been voted out by forces he has no chance of resisting. What better indications do you need?

Reputations are on the line. Seriously. He's had it.

Suicide by UN Resolution 1973 is not my No1 choice but it's a possibility. He probably has a camel drivers kit in his wardrobe. I would have if I was him. Didn't the president of South Vietnam end up running a burger van?

You're no observer of this conflict. You're a media gump.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
He probably has a camel drivers kit in his wardrobe that he bought from Spendius!
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:24 pm
@reasoning logic,
Probably; that's the only way spendi would know about those things. Probably got into his pants too! LOL
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I've ridden on a camel. It was a "must do". They are horrible. I've met a few camel drivers.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:34 pm
@spendius,
Thousand have ridden on camels, but the stench only stays with you. There is no such thing as a "must do" unless you can be instructed to do something against your will.
0 Replies
 
 

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