53
   

Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 04:19 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Oh--I forgot.. A "red mist" is a gentleman's club version of getting your knickers in a twist.


Back to the club thing eh? There's a group assembling here in mid May and, if I'm back from Germany, I'll take you there if you'll join them. You might have a good time.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 04:23 pm
@georgeob1,
I don't bother with clubs. They select too narrowly. I'm an eclectic kinda guy.

What's a "good time" in your club George? Not having toothache?
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 05:12 pm
@spendius,
Not so selective - we're not British - just a great location & view (by the Golden Gate), easy parking, good food & wine, and a familiar, unpretentious venue.

I'm headed there now with wife, daughter, son-in-law & grandkids. We will have a good time.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 05:12 pm
Now Turkey is wobbling and the US are handing over "command" of the operations "within days".
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 05:15 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I'm headed there now with wife, daughter, son-in-law & grandkids. We will have a good time.


That sounds bleak to me George. That's not my idea of a good time.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 05:29 pm
From Gergen
Quote:
• Even bigger headaches are arising in the U.S.-Saudi relationship. Several top players from past administrations report that the Saudis are hugely angry about Obama's treatment of Egypt's ex-President Hosni Mubarak. "He was your best friend in the region for more than 30 years, doing everything you asked," the Saudi argument goes, "but a week after he got into trouble, you threw him under the bus rather than working out a graceful exit. How can we now trust you?"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/03/20/gergen.washington.libya/index.html?hpt=T1

Q: You cant....
1) it is not in Obama's DNA to support the Saudi royal family if he should have an option

and

2) if Obama has a Middle East policy no one knows what the **** it is

and

3) Obama does not care about the world in general and the Mid East in particular. They are distractions which he resents. Expecting this guy who has a hard enough time coming up with the balls to see through things that he does care about make a stand for anything in the Mid East would be foolish.

and

4) it is not in Obama's DNA to support past US Presidents if he does not agree with what they did. The Saudi's have been close friends of America's political class for a long time, but that means nothing to Obama. He feels no loyalty to the choices of his predecessors. With Obama in charge American can never be more than a fair weather friend. Upon taking office almost first on his to-do list was to take up the job of chief American Apologizer
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 05:49 pm
LATEST RESULTS.

TOP GUNS 1
MAD DOG 0

That's how Rupert Murdoch's "Black or White" tabloid does it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 06:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
2) if Obama has a Middle East policy no one knows what the **** it is.


I know what it is hawk. Looking good dynamically bouncing up the step again in Brazil. It's a pity Brazil abstained in the vote on resolution 1973 mind you but hey--he bounded up the step good. Open neck shirt notwithstanding. (It is a deliberate choice in case you think it looks casual. There will have been discussions on the matter with highly placed officials.)

Does anybody know how big an explosive is in a Tomahawk missile? We are all hoping that Lisa Holland, who is reporting for Sky News from Tripoli under Gadaffi's restrictions, doesn't get clobbered.

Enid's Mum wants to know if it will have an effect on house prices.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 07:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
"He was your best friend in the region for more than 30 years, doing everything you asked," the Saudi argument goes, "but a week after he got into trouble, you threw him under the bus rather than working out a graceful exit. How can we now trust you?"


Duuuhhh, what planet have these jokers been living on?
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 09:07 pm
@revelette,
It sounds to me like the Arab League is saying "Lets you and him fight" and then trying to control the action with not a bit of skin in the game.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 09:23 pm
@roger,
I was thinking along the same lines. It'd kind of be like me having a flat tire in the middle of traffic, and then telling whomever stopped to help that they weren't allowed to move the car to safety before changing the tire.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 09:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Upon taking office almost first on his to-do list was to take up the job of chief American Apologizer


Yeah right. Had he done that, he'd have had no time for anything else.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2011 10:24 pm
@JTT,
And he didn't.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 05:12 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6v82i0FsA4

This is all a bit odd. Now Gadaffi is "a legitimate target" of the coalition which I suppose means we are aiming to kill him and those near him at the time.

It's not that unlike schoolgirls blowing hot and cold with their crushes.

Would we defend the integrity of our countries from an armed insurrection by disparate groups about which we know nothing.

And RAF pilots have come home with their bombs because they didn't want to risk hurting any civilians.

Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 05:51 am
@spendius,
Quote:
And RAF pilots have come home with their bombs because they didn't want to risk hurting any civilians.
Which, when publicised, means Qaddafi will put more civilians in harms way . I am reminded of Blazing Saddles where the new sheriff holds himself by the throat and a gun to his own head whilst threatening to shoot the nigger if anyone moves .
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:13 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Obama does not care about the world in general and the Mid East in particular.
Its amazing how weve gone from "Obama, the Muslim sleeper cell" to now hes JAmes Buchanan
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:37 am
I don't necessarily agree with everything Juan Cole says today, but he did explain the differences in Libya uprising and the others in the region pretty good.
Quote:

That the world community has intervened in Libya but not in say, Yemen and Bahrain, has raised cries of hypocrisy. These charges are largely deserved. It is worth noting, however, that nowhere else in the Arab world where there have been widespread protests has the regime consistently responded with such massive brutality as in Libya. Yemen, with the sniper massacre of crowds on Friday, is moving in that direction, but Qaddafi has likely killed thousands since February 17, not just dozens.

From February 17, a peaceful protest movement broke out throughout Libya. Civilian crowds gathered without violence downtown, in Benghazi, Tobruk, Dirna, Zawiya, Zuara and even in the outskirts of Tripoli as in the working class town of Tajoura. City notables and military men in the east of the country formed a provisional government. Many diplomats declared for the provisional government, as did many officers and even cabinet members.

The Qaddafi regime responded with brutal violence to these non-violent protests. Early on, live fire was used against protesters in Tripoli itself. Last week, convoys of tanks rolled into Zawiya, supported by heavy artillery, firing on civilian crowds and on civilian apartment buildings. The tanks occupied the city center, and there are reports of a mass grave of the protesters. They were just protesters. They were easily defeated because they did not know, and most of them still do not know, how to handle a weapon. There were large numbers of self-inflicted gunshot wounds in the rebel ranks.

A reporter on the scene in Zawiya spoke of ‘large numbers of deaths’ and a ‘massacre.’ (video on the site)

The Zawiya scenario was repeated, in Zuara to its west, and in Misrata to its east (Misrata, a city of 600,000 and Libya’s third largest, appears to have fallen to Qaddafi this weekend, with his tanks occupying the city center in a dreary repetition of the death and destruction at Zawiya earlier).

Libya began as a protest. Some of the protesters (apparently only a few thousand) were turned into armed rebels as they sought to defend themselves. Qaddafi responded to the protest movement by firing tank and artillery shells at the protesters and at infrastructure in the rebel cities. Many are without water and electricity, creating a humanitarian crisis.


source

revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:53 am
Quote:
The BBC's Kevin Connolly, in the rebel-held city of Tobruk, says it is not clear if the allies can attack Col Gaddafi's troops operating in the centre of Misrata without harming the very civilians they have come to save.

A rebel spokesman told Reuters news agency that pro-Gaddafi forces were bringing civilians to Misrata from outlying areas to deter further allied strikes.

On Monday Britain said it had called off an air raid during the night because civilians were spotted near the target area. The UK defence ministry did not say where the planned target had been.

Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa, who supported the UN resolution, on Sunday criticised the severity of the bombardment.

"What is happening in Libya differs from the aim of imposing a no-fly zone, and what we want is the protection of civilians and not the bombardment of more civilians," he said.

But on Monday, in a joint news conference with visiting UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon in Cairo, Mr Moussa played down any differences within the coalition. "We are all united on the issue of protecting civilians," he said.

Both he and Mr Ban stressed that Arab League support was a key factor in securing Security Council backing for the UN resolution.


source




0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 07:12 am
@revelette,
Quote:
Yemen, with the sniper massacre of crowds on Friday, is moving in that direction, but Qaddafi has likely killed thousands since February 17, not just dozens.


Is it possible to make a principled case based on numbers? And especially when a word like "likely" is in the proposition.

Now Syrian military have killed five. Egypt has had a military coup of sorts. So has Tunisia. Yemen looks like following. Bahrain too. Saudi Arabia has a lockdown under threat of violence. Afghanistan is in stalemate. Iraq is watching. And so is Iran.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 07:42 am
@spendius,
Perhaps they get the likely number because Qaddafi has been using tanks and other military weapons against the citizens of Libya right from the start which caused them to try and take up arms in defense. Yemen have had snipers shooting citizens. Both are bad.
 

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