53
   

Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:52 pm
@Lash,
Dear dear Lash, it is you that is suffering under delusions, major ones but seemingly, that just comes with the territory. Not many Americans have been able to escape the stultifying effects that comes with lifelong brainwashing.

I think that Olga's reply set up too much cognitive dissonance. I've seen this same reaction, mental shutdown, from a whole passel of Americans. There is hope for you truly are bright enough to overcome this.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 11:31 pm
@Lash,
Not at all, Lash.
I simply assumed, this being a discussion thread on a public forum, that anyone could respond to anyone else's comments.
Nothing unusual about that, surely?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 01:23 am
@msolga,
Actually, there is something a bit weird about it. I asked members if they had an opinion about the current US president's response to the events in the ME. Logic would follow that those with an opinion would comment.

If you think it's "irrelevant," why waste your time - and mine - with such a meaningless post?

Quote:
So what does this have to do with the current uprisings in the middle east, Lash?
If you don't think the actions of leadership around the world has any bearing, you're in for an education. Do you think the ME exists in a vacuum? You don't think radical changes in this part of the world will send rivulets across the rest of the world? You don't think that the powers in the world have any bearing on the situation, either now or more likely later as they re-assimilate back into global society? How very short-sighted of you.
I think the pro & con debates about US administrations are pretty much irrelevant to what the ordinary people in countries like Libya, Egypt, Tunisia Yemen, etc, are actually trying to achieve in their own countries.
The ME is experiencing huge growth pangs. As or when they have re-instituted their government, they will form relationships with other governments. Every word passing in these days is important. Additionally, people are interested to see how their governments perform in times of change and global stress. Missing the forest, staring at a shiny tree is ignorant.
I care a whole lot less about US policy for the region than real improvements in the lives of ordinary people in those countries.
How magnanimous of you. I'm sure you are the only one who feels that way. Please don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. The world would be such a beautiful, harmonious place if only we could all be as brilliantly knowledgeable and benevolent as you.



Talk about the aspects that interest you. This aspect holds interest for me. Your weird self-aggrandizing cheerleading is preposterous.

msolga
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 01:49 am
@Lash,
Lash, the last time I intend to comment on this.
I posted what I wanted to say.
And it wasn't personal in tone, I responded to what you said in your post.
It'd be nice if you responded in kind.
I have no problem with you having a different view to mine & will continue to argue your (or anyone else's) points if I see things differently.
These things happen in a discussion like this.


Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 04:43 am
@msolga,
Quote:
Lash, the last time I intend to comment on this.

Promises, promises...
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 04:45 am
@Lash,
I commenting on your post, Lash.

Come on, let it go! Smile

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 04:49 am
@Lash,
Somehow, I knew she wouldn't be true to her word, but even I was amazed at the blinding speed of which she backtracked.
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 04:52 am
@Lash,

But, possum, I was just responding to a post you directed at me a few minutes ago.

You really should get over this! Wink
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 04:58 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Lash, the last time I intend to comment on this.

She should run for public office. Has the veracity issue resolved perfectly.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 05:07 am
Quote:

Gaddafi fights for his future as up to 200 die in Benghazi

By Andrew Johnson and Susie Mesure
Sunday, 20 February 2011/the Independent (UK)

Regime accused of hiring foreign mercenaries as clashes between supporters and pro-democracy demonstrators in the country's second city escalate

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00560/gadd1_560405t.jpg
Gaddafi pictured with the African Union flag at a Silvio Berlusconi speech last August- AFP/Getty Images

Libya was approaching a "tipping point" last night as widespread protests against Colonel Gaddafi's regime were met with increasing violence from security forces.

Dozens of protesters were reported killed by sniper fire from security forces in Benghazi, Libya's second city, yesterday when violence flared again as crowds clashed after funerals for people killed in fighting on Friday. "Dozens were killed. We are in the midst of a massacre here," one eyewitness reported.

Clashes were reported in the town of al-Bayda, where dozens of civilians were said to have been killed and police stations came under attack. In all, the death toll was reported to have reached 120. Doctors from Aj Jala hospital in Benghazi confirmed 1,000 people had been injured.

The widespread violence on Friday culminated in at least 35 deaths, according to Human Rights Watch. The New York-based watchdog said its tally was now 84 after three days of violence. The Benghazi-based Quryna newspaper, reportedly linked to one of Colonel Gaddafi's sons, said 24 were killed. Other reports put the body count higher, with as many as 200 dead and more than 1,000 hurt.

Experts warned the Gaddafi regime was unlikely to make the sort of compromises seen recently in other Arab countries. Sir Richard Dalton, former British ambassador to Libya, said: "Gaddafi will find it hard to make concessions in order to survive. I think the attitude of the Libyan regime is that it's all or nothing."

The disturbances in Libya differ markedly from those in Egypt, Tunisia and other parts of the Middle East, in that protesters opposed to the current regime are clashing directly and violently with Gaddafi supporters.

Libya-watchers are now waiting anxiously to see if protests spread to the capital, Tripoli. Most violence is confined to the east of the country where unemployment is high and Mr Gaddafi's grip said to be weaker. But they stressed that his regime had survived 41 years through brutality and he showed no signs of losing his nerve.

William Hague, Britain's Foreign Secretary, condemned Libya for firing on demonstrators. "This is clearly unacceptable and horrifying. Governments must respond to the legitimate aspirations of their people, rather than resort to the use of force, and must respect the right to peaceful protest."

However, experts admitted the British Government and business interests were watching the situation closely. BP declined to comment on the situation last night but said it was concerned for its 140 employees in Libya. Security experts said all UK companies in Libya had contingency plans if the uprising spread.

Douglas Alexander, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, said: "From Libya to Bahrain, many past assumptions have been dissolved by these demonstrations. Britain should speak out against violence, speak up for human rights in all countries and make clear that moves towards democracy are the best guarantee of long-term stability."

Critics claim that British economic interests in Libya had muted support for the uprising there. British exports to Libya have risen to more than £400m and are set to increase dramatically as oil and gas investments by Shell and BP develop. Britain halted military exports to Libya last week but sniper rifles, which may have killed protesters yesterday, were amongst equipment exported to Tripoli last year.

Protests have continued to grow in strength and violence after the first demonstration last Tuesday, when thousands massed following the arrest of a human rights campaigner.

A Benghazi cleric, Abellah al-Warfali, told al-Jazeera television he had a list of 16 people being buried yesterday, most with bullet wounds. "I saw with my own eyes a tank crushing two people in a car," he said. "They hadn't done any harm to anyone."

Several reports said government-recruited mercenaries were behind the worst violence including sniper attacks and the use of heavy machine guns. A British-based IT consultant, Ahmed Swelim, 26, originally from Benghazi, said relatives told him the situation had reached "critical point". "People are living in fear since he [Mr Gaddafi] brought in African mercenaries. They are dressing as normal people but doing random killings. They will shoot or cut people's hands off. The whole city is erupting. People went out to protest peacefully. They want an end to this oppression. The death toll is much higher than reported. There are more than 200 dead. My cousin, a doctor at a main hospital, has seen the bodies. There are more than 1,000 injured."

He said people in Benghazi were desperate. "We need an end to this oppression. It's been 41 years. We've been dreaming of this day. If we go back, the whole area will be wiped out. We know how crazy he is. If we step down, we will be taken out." ...<cont>


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/gaddafi-fights-for-his-future-as-up-to-200-die-in-benghazi-2220131.html
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 08:15 am
There has to be a reason why these dictators do not want to let go of power!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8BjFwQaOYI

0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 08:46 am
midday summary from today's Guardian live blog

Libya
It is very hard to get accurate information, but the death toll in the eastern city of Benghazi may have risen above 200 today. The government crack-down on the protests is continuing using foreign mercenaries.

Bahrain
The protest at Pearl Square has taken on something of a carnival feel today with demonstrators celebrating the pull back of the security forces. The ruling elite has made overtures to opposition groups to set up talks about the country's future.

Morocco
Protests are taking place across the country today calling for an end to corruption and more political freedoms. So far there are no reports of serious violence.

Tunisia
There have been clashes between security forces and protesters calling for the replacement of the interim government that was put in place after President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali fled the country last month.
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 12:46 pm
@JPB,
daily wrap up

Libya
Violence continues in the eastern city of Benghazi with foreign militias attacking thousands or perhaps tens of thousands of demonstrators with live ammunition. Reports from the city's hospital suggest that more than 200 have been killed but these are difficult to confirm. There are also reports that the army has fired into the crowds from helicopters. Security forces are reported to have opened fire on mourners at the funerals of anti-government protesters.

Iran
There are reports of demonstrations in Tehran, Tabriz, Zahedan and Kerman. The protests in Tehran have been met with force from plainclothes security men. At least one protester is reported shot and Faezeh Rafsanjani, the daughter of influential cleric and former president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani is reported to have been arrested.

Bahrain

Protesters have returned to Pearl roundabout following the army's withdrawal. The mood there is upbeat. Hillary Clinton has backed the protesters and condemned the violence from the security forces.


Morocco
Demonstrations have taken place across the country including around 4,000 to 5,000 people on the streets in Rabat. The police and security forces have adopted a low-key approach and there are no reports of significant violence.

Yemen

Around 3,000 students have demonstrated in the capital Sana'a. After 11 days of protest, President Ali Abdullah Saleh has offered a dialogue with opposition groups.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 12:53 pm
@JPB,
It reveals who the tyrants are, and they're the ones that needs to be replaced. If the young participate in the demonstrations, and they are killed or injured, their leaders are going to be condemned by the world courts and communities. How do they plan for their future if they kill the young?
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 01:11 pm
@JPB,
Thanks for the wrap-up, JPB.
With regards to Libya, the protests have been to the east of Tripoli in places like Benghazi. But there appears to now be some activity in the capital.
Some reports suggests that Libya has brought in foreign mercenaries to combat the protesters. I wonder if that might suggest that the military does not fully support the government.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 01:43 pm
@msolga,
Perhaps Gaddafi's friends and supporters in Britain & Italy should reassess their economic deals with the dictator. Odd, Msolga, that you haven't commented on that aspect of the siutuation in Lybia while you did so extensively with respect to Egypt.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 04:49 pm
@Endymion,
Endymion wrote:

just read through the last few pages of this thread -

what the hell us wrong with some people?


I know!

Damned Philistines.

They don't all see things the way you do, so there must be something wrong with them.

How can we set them right?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 04:55 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Looks pretty clear to me. WTFO ?


People are dying in North Africa george and you're posting about fine meals and wine!

You insensitive cur!

Don't you realize that the closer you adhere to the notions of Endymion and JTT the more lives that will be saved?

And if you refuse to get on the right page, at least have the personal decency to post comments on a stupid, *******, internet opinion forum that match up with those who take this **** seriously!

Don't you realize that our comments are actually helping to shape the outcomes in these places?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 05:14 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Take it easy! Saying he enjoyed a meal and wine with friends doesn't harm anyone. That you want to bash him for an enjoyment doesn't take away from the horrors of what's happening around the world - not just in the Middle East. Many millions are starving; so what? There's not much we can do to help all those starving people. Get off your goddam high horse and live in this world's reality.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 05:48 pm
I have just watched Saif Gaddafi's electrifying 40 minute speech. I am more than ever convinced after that that this dinkytown, world in the armchair mind's eye, thread is nothing but gratuitous ego blatter-shoot of the very worst sort.

That delicate ladies, and their imitators, in the suburbs of our towns and cities should feel it incumbent upon themselves to pronounce upon these matters is a form of madness which is extremely worrying for our own society.
0 Replies
 
 

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