1
   

Chiraq bans Muslim head scarves in State Schools

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 10:48 am
Well, I'm one of those silly Germans.

Since 1910 (> Guido von List) the 'Hakenkreuz' is seen a symbol for anti-Semitic ideas in Germany, adopted in 1919/20 by the NSDAP.

The term "Nazi" was then 'created' for the very first time - as far as I remember my studies and could find out now (you may correct me).

So IMHO it's very correct to say that the 'Hakenkreuz' has always been a symbol of Nazism. (Actually, I've never heard of any other, which was recognised by ALL of the numerous Nazi organisations).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 10:52 am
Besides, I really don't like

a) that you call the whole German nation 'silly',

b) that you bring us in line equally with neo-Nazis.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 10:58 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:


So IMHO it's very correct to say that the 'Hakenkreuz' has always been a symbol of Nazism. (Actually, I've never heard of any other, which was recognised by ALL of the numerous Nazi organisations).


in the bit you posted in parenthesis, you make it very clear why you wrongly think that "its very correct to say.... nazism" - cos you have not heard of any other. and unfortunately nor have very many others.


however india and hinduism is considerably older than nazism and all other "isms" (aside of perhaps Neanderthalism) - and hence we know a lot better.



i am waiting till another lunatic organisation (liek those silly nazis), maybe the zapatista or mugabe or even good old al queida adopts a symbol from some religion - maybe the cross or a smiling buddha - and asscoates itself with that.

then we (indians) will have company - as another people will join us after being forced to look helplessly on, as a perfectly harmles symbol of their faith, gets tarnished for good.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 11:01 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Besides, I really don't like

a) that you call the whole German nation 'silly',

b) that you bring us in line equally with neo-Nazis.


i didnt call the whole german nation silly (though almost the whole german nation did join nazism, by own choice or by force - as the present pope claims).


those silly germans = the silly amongst the germans = nazis


i did not bring germans "equally in line with neo-Nazis" - i did however say that neo nazis also use the Swastik (and its not swastikA) in the same way as the silly amongst the germans used it - as a symbol of hatred, blah blah
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 11:01 am
You see, I've studied history at university; we learn quite a lot of our past in history classes at school.

I'm really not that silly as you seem to think we Germans are: one of my examination papers (at school) was about the Hakenkreuz.
So I know quite a lot about the history of the 'swastika'.
But: the Hakenkreuz is and was THE symbol for Nazism, how long, when, who ever used for whatever before.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 11:09 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
You see, I've studied history at university; we learn quite a lot of our past in history classes at school.

I'm really not that silly as you seem to think we Germans are: one of my examination papers (at school) was about the Hakenkreuz.
So I know quite a lot about the history of the 'swastika'.
But: the Hakenkreuz is and was THE symbol for Nazism, how long, when, who ever used for whatever before.


man !!!!

i've studied history at uni - congrats

we learn a lot etc - we do too

i am really not silly etc - nice to know you are not a nazi.

my paper at school etc - i guess was a school level paper

so i know..etc - well you dont even know its real name !!

but the hakenkraut is the symbol of nazism etc - its our bad luck that those loonies chose an age old symbol of ours as their own.


how long when etc - er.. can you translate that bit to english.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 12:37 pm
I always thought it was an eastern symbol of good luck calle the fyflot and adapted by the Nazis.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 12:50 pm
fyflot ??

good luck .. yes.. it also symbolises the sun, and also the creater ....and the cyclicity of the swastik symbolises the cycle of life and death we believe in.



and congrats for the ashes... the arrival of Flintstone, then Harpoon and finally Peitermaritzburg have taken the team from strength to strength...
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 01:10 pm
Danke Schoen


(My very good friend Walter is an expert on cricket......and indeed a lot of other things Smile)

seriously you never heard of fyflot?

if not try google.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 01:15 pm
er i heard of it..... the "??" were meant to be like "why on earth call it fyflot" or like "Ponting who ??" Wink

i dont know how to say "welcome" in german (i know the german for ty though).. so maybe make do with a Guten Abend !
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 01:17 pm
... or Sunwheel in Norse mythology, crux gammata in Latin countries, and tetraskelion or gammadion in Greece ...
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 01:44 pm
well glad thats sorted

now Lord Ellpus needs further literary inspiration
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 03:28 pm
Today, the European rights court upholds Turkish ban on headscarves - a decision, which is likely to affect similar bans on headscarves enacted recently by a growing number of other countries.

Quote:
Court backs Turkish headscarf ban

Turkey can ban Islamic headscarves in universities, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled.


The court rejected an appeal by a Turkish woman who argued that the state ban violated her right to an education and discriminated against her.
Leyla Sahin had brought the case in 1998 after being excluded from class at Istanbul University.

But the judges ruled that the ban was justified to maintain order and avoid giving preference to any religion.

Although overwhelmingly Muslim, Turkey is a secular republic and the Islamic headscarf is banned in all universities and official buildings.

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Istanbul says the verdict will have a major impact as more than 1,000 other women from Turkey have filed similar applications.

'Extremist movements'

According to the court's ruling, which is final, the headscarf ban is based on the Turkish constitution's principles of secularism and equality.

In a society where men and women are equal, it said, a ban on religious attire such as the headscarf was justified on university premises.

"The court did not lose sight of the fact that there were extremist political movements in Turkey which sought to impose on society as a whole their religious symbols and conception of a society founded on religious precepts," the court's ruling added.

Our correspondent says the ruling is a bitter disappointment for Ms Sahin and her lawyers.

Ms Sahin, who now lives in Vienna, had argued the ban violated her right to study and discriminated against her for her religious belief.

Her defence team believe the decision is political and that the court feared the enormous implications of ruling otherwise for a mainly Muslim country.

But they point out that the headscarf ban applies to all Turkish universities, state or private, so that students are faced with an impossible dilemma - to ignore their religious beliefs or go without higher education.
Source
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 03:35 pm
"But they point out that the headscarf ban applies to all Turkish universities, state or private, "

I dont think it should apply to private universities. I have only ever advocated it for state schools, i.e. children educated at taxpayers expense.

However I can live with it. And I'm sure many Muslims in turkey will be pleased their women are effectively banned from gaining higher education.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 12:09 pm
Last week's ruling by the European Court of Human Rights upholding Turkey's ban on headscarves in public universities, has led to confrontation between the Islamic government and the law's secular proponents.

Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer, who supports the ban, says the court's ruling was "binding" and should end the controversy. The country's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul have argued the opinion is not binding and promised to continue fighting the decision.
The ban, which includes college campuses and state offices, has been enforced by the secular military since 1986. The European court upheld the ban because the Turkish Constitution (Text) prevents the state from showing a preference for a particular religion or belief.

AP report: Head Scarf Ruling Raises Tension in Turkey
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 12:32 pm
Just reviewing this on (nearly the second anniversary!!!) of starting this thread and I would just like to thank all those who made sensible and worthwhile contributions, there were a lot!

I've certainly learned something....but have I changed my opinion? Well to be honest no. I still think it important that if a state has a secular constitution, it should go out of its way not to show preference to one religion over another or be equally negative towards all state sanction of religion. (Again we are talking about children and juveniles below the age of majority in state schools who are being educated at public expense).

So perhaps in years 3 and 4 (!) we could address the slightly different question...

following on from this discussion, have your opinions hardened or softened from what you might have read here? Looking back, has anything happened to change or modify your initial opinion?

I will start a continuation thread with an appropriate title soon.

thanks all
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 12:38 pm
Well, my opinion haven't changed at all: no uniforms in schools, whatever name they got.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 01:20 pm
never doubted it Smile

At Stewards School they have non-uniform day once in a while where the students pay £1 and wear whatever they like

and they all wear the same (casual street wise) uniform of whatever it is for that particular 3 month period....
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 01:32 pm
I read the other day that some (state!) schools have decided to such high priced schooluniforms that only chidren from few families could go there.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 01:40 pm
quite right too

you dont want the riff raff going to state schools surely?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 8.74 seconds on 11/15/2024 at 06:29:05